Cone Air filter for S2 ???
01-10-2003, 02:28 PM
#1
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Cone Air filter for S2 ???
Does anyone know anything about the Cone Air Filter 9xauto.com is offering for the S2??
<a href="http://www.9xauto.com/944s.html" target="_blank">http://www.9xauto.com/944s.html</a>
They claim 8hp ??? Can anyone fill me in at all? Is this worth the 200 they are asking?
Would it have any problems with water induction in the rain?
<a href="http://www.9xauto.com/944s.html" target="_blank">http://www.9xauto.com/944s.html</a>
They claim 8hp ??? Can anyone fill me in at all? Is this worth the 200 they are asking?
Would it have any problems with water induction in the rain?
01-10-2003, 02:37 PM
#2
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Tony,
It is highly doubtful that you will gain any "real" horsepower. Because induction noise will increase and the engine will rev more freely it will "feel/sound" like that car is faster. So, to answer your question it is absolutely NOT worth $200. You could make it yourself for a lot less than that (more like $50). You could also just buy a K&N air filter (some people like them, some don't) and then remove the baffling in the stock air box (it is VERY restrictive). As for 'water induction'...this is paranoia from the 8v NA guys spilling over into the S2 realm. No offense fellas. You are in no danger of ingesting enough water to cause any harm to your engine. I don't care if it is a hurricane. You would have to bury the nose of the car up to the head lights in water for water induction to be a concern.
I have installed a K&N, removed the baffle from the stock air box and then drilled 10 or 12(can't remeber for sure) 3/4" holes in the front of the air box cover. I do hear more induction noise at full throttle (which I like) and the engine does 'seem' to rev more freely. Plus, I like the idea of not having to remove that nose panel again for 50k miles to clean the filter.
YMMV. Best Regards, Max
It is highly doubtful that you will gain any "real" horsepower. Because induction noise will increase and the engine will rev more freely it will "feel/sound" like that car is faster. So, to answer your question it is absolutely NOT worth $200. You could make it yourself for a lot less than that (more like $50). You could also just buy a K&N air filter (some people like them, some don't) and then remove the baffling in the stock air box (it is VERY restrictive). As for 'water induction'...this is paranoia from the 8v NA guys spilling over into the S2 realm. No offense fellas. You are in no danger of ingesting enough water to cause any harm to your engine. I don't care if it is a hurricane. You would have to bury the nose of the car up to the head lights in water for water induction to be a concern.
I have installed a K&N, removed the baffle from the stock air box and then drilled 10 or 12(can't remeber for sure) 3/4" holes in the front of the air box cover. I do hear more induction noise at full throttle (which I like) and the engine does 'seem' to rev more freely. Plus, I like the idea of not having to remove that nose panel again for 50k miles to clean the filter.
YMMV. Best Regards, Max
01-10-2003, 03:33 PM
#3
Race Director
For us NA 8v guys I happen to know that the stock paper air filter and box are actually quite good. In fact I know of a race car that switched back to the stock system after some dyno work.
I don't know if the is applies to the S2.
I don't know if the is applies to the S2.
01-10-2003, 04:25 PM
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The factory fix for the 944 NA's is to cut the snout down and plug the hole through the fender. There's supposedly a factory plastic plug for the fender hole.
The other part of the water ingestion fix is to block off the vent hose from the belt covers.
As the bottom of the engine will hit deep water sooner than the air box fender well intake I can see where the belt cover vent hose is most likely the culprit in hydro locking the engine. The belts can whip up and transport a considerable amount of water.
Cutting holes in factory air boxes is a loose-loose proposition. These air boxes are designed to handle the intake air efficiently and there is nothing more that can be done to them (besides removing the filter element) to make them flow any better.
The paper filter elements the factory air boxes use are not designed to run wet. So any water ingestion will cause serious loss of power.
The other part of the water ingestion fix is to block off the vent hose from the belt covers.
As the bottom of the engine will hit deep water sooner than the air box fender well intake I can see where the belt cover vent hose is most likely the culprit in hydro locking the engine. The belts can whip up and transport a considerable amount of water.
Cutting holes in factory air boxes is a loose-loose proposition. These air boxes are designed to handle the intake air efficiently and there is nothing more that can be done to them (besides removing the filter element) to make them flow any better.
The paper filter elements the factory air boxes use are not designed to run wet. So any water ingestion will cause serious loss of power.
01-10-2003, 04:35 PM
#5
Race Director
The 944S2's stock air filter system has a simple, but effective 'ram air' effect. You can actually see a 'snorkel' opening under the nose. Going with a cone filter, you will loose that ram air effect. I doubt you'll gain much of anything, except it is a pain to switch the air filter in our cars!
Also: I have heard that some cone air filters can allow too much dirt to enter the engine: never a good thing!
Keep the stock setup: that's my suggestion.
-Z-man.
Also: I have heard that some cone air filters can allow too much dirt to enter the engine: never a good thing!
Keep the stock setup: that's my suggestion.
-Z-man.
01-10-2003, 04:39 PM
#6
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As for the holes in the factory airbox thing you may be right. However, if you have never seen the airbox in an S2 (and if you don't own one or work on them then you probably haven't since it in under the nose panel) it is short, wide and only has a 4.5" x 3.5" opening and then has a baffle that runs half the length of the nose panel wide filter. Typically, only half of the S2's filter even gets dirty because the portion behind the baffle doesn't see much airflow.
Again, I am not at all concerned about water ingestion as the filter is oil coated and the intake is almost 2 feet from the ground.
Max
Again, I am not at all concerned about water ingestion as the filter is oil coated and the intake is almost 2 feet from the ground.
Max
01-10-2003, 05:57 PM
#7
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Hey Max,
Part of the beauty of the stock airbox is that when the portion of the filter that sees the most flow gets plugged up, the overall flow is still pretty decent because the air finds the path of least resistance through the cleaner portion.
As for a power increase, I'm pleased with the cat-back stainless exhaust from Speed Force Racing. Mine is the 2.5-in.-diameter version with the round muffler (about $600, IIRC). Did some 1/4-mile runs at California Speedway for before-and-after comparisons, and I was amazed!
First day: totally stock configuration, except for underdrive pulleys on crank, alternator and p/s pump.....15.3, 15.2, 15.1 sec.
Second day: same as above, except for exhaust system.......14.7, 14.6, 14.7 sec.
Now I have to say that it was about 100 degrees the first day, vs. about 60 degrees on the second, but even if you subtract 0.2 second for temperature, a 0.3-sec. improvement is nothing to sneeze at.
Part of the beauty of the stock airbox is that when the portion of the filter that sees the most flow gets plugged up, the overall flow is still pretty decent because the air finds the path of least resistance through the cleaner portion.
As for a power increase, I'm pleased with the cat-back stainless exhaust from Speed Force Racing. Mine is the 2.5-in.-diameter version with the round muffler (about $600, IIRC). Did some 1/4-mile runs at California Speedway for before-and-after comparisons, and I was amazed!
First day: totally stock configuration, except for underdrive pulleys on crank, alternator and p/s pump.....15.3, 15.2, 15.1 sec.
Second day: same as above, except for exhaust system.......14.7, 14.6, 14.7 sec.
Now I have to say that it was about 100 degrees the first day, vs. about 60 degrees on the second, but even if you subtract 0.2 second for temperature, a 0.3-sec. improvement is nothing to sneeze at.
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01-10-2003, 07:37 PM
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Would like to see a good picture of the inside of the air box with a ruler in frame. I have pictures of the outside of the box from the front.
Guess if one end of the air filter is catching more than the other you could just turn it around and get further service.
Calculating air flow throw a basic plenum such as the air box is no trick. Has to do with cross section and the amount of air you want.
The filter elements are quite porous and can take quite a bit of blockage. Just don't get them wet.
Guess if one end of the air filter is catching more than the other you could just turn it around and get further service.
Calculating air flow throw a basic plenum such as the air box is no trick. Has to do with cross section and the amount of air you want.
The filter elements are quite porous and can take quite a bit of blockage. Just don't get them wet.
01-10-2003, 09:21 PM
#9
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Speaking from experience, there is NO PROBLEM taking in too much water with a cone setup in an S2. I have the stock airbox completely removed with just a simple PVC pipe and cone in the front. Here in FL, especially during the summer, we get some WICKED monsoon type rainstorms and I've driven in them with no problems at all.
You do know that some turbo guys use water injection systems to lower intake temps right? Taking in some water is fine, it actually increases power. Too much would be hydrolocking the motor, which unless you drive straight into a pond and completely submerge the filter I don't think that's a big problem. The only problem I see is having to service the filter sooner because heavy rain might wash some of the oil off.
With the cone on and airbox removed you will get some more noise from the intake, which I happen to like. Nothing like the roar of the 16v motor at WOT with that cone setup on there.
You do know that some turbo guys use water injection systems to lower intake temps right? Taking in some water is fine, it actually increases power. Too much would be hydrolocking the motor, which unless you drive straight into a pond and completely submerge the filter I don't think that's a big problem. The only problem I see is having to service the filter sooner because heavy rain might wash some of the oil off.
With the cone on and airbox removed you will get some more noise from the intake, which I happen to like. Nothing like the roar of the 16v motor at WOT with that cone setup on there.
01-11-2003, 02:05 AM
#10
Burning Brakes
That filter they are selling is a Todd Zucone design that they buy from him. Zucone used to sell it for $200 as well so they are most likely paying about $125 for it or less. I don't know what happend to Zuccones web site.
