Quicker steering rack?
06-25-2003, 01:15 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
If a deer jumps out and you spook and turn your wheels as hard right as they go...Screee...
I think F1 cars have the turning radius of a semi, too, though. They don't have to parallel park too often.
Why not make the steering quicker on sports cars? Seems like a cheap way to fake a "tighter" feeling car...It should be an option, because it's something I notice negatively right away when I drive other cars.
I think F1 cars have the turning radius of a semi, too, though. They don't have to parallel park too often.
Why not make the steering quicker on sports cars? Seems like a cheap way to fake a "tighter" feeling car...It should be an option, because it's something I notice negatively right away when I drive other cars.
06-25-2003, 02:35 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
Manual Rack: ratio 22.39:1, 3.84-4.02 turns lock to lock
Power Rack: ratio 18.85:1, 3.24 turns lock to lock
I agree, the power rack seems slow, so the manual rack would seem even slower.
Power Rack: ratio 18.85:1, 3.24 turns lock to lock
I agree, the power rack seems slow, so the manual rack would seem even slower.
06-25-2003, 02:50 PM
#18
Thanks Don. I have been looking all over the place for the actual specs for the racks. However, that still doesn't explain the results I had with my car. In my compare-o the count came out the same for both racks, and I counted the number of turns at least a half dozen times for each rack.
06-25-2003, 02:53 PM
#19
Racer
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Shawnee, Kansas
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wonder how hard it would be to mod/fab a power rack with, say 2.7 turns lock-to-lock. That would really tighten the car up without making it too twitchy. Maybe we should suggest it to the guys at KLA....
06-25-2003, 03:20 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
Michael, those are the specs from the factory manual. No other steering racks are mentioned (except for RHD cars, which have 3.26 turns lock to lock on the power racks, but I assume you would notice if the steering wheel were suddenly on the right [wrong?] side of the car.) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
I guess the obvious question is, did you install a manual rack, or power rack converted to manual, or has someone figured out how to install the R&P from a power rack into a manual rack?
By the way, what was your count on turns lock to lock?
And your signature line is certainly appropriate for this topic!
I guess the obvious question is, did you install a manual rack, or power rack converted to manual, or has someone figured out how to install the R&P from a power rack into a manual rack?
By the way, what was your count on turns lock to lock?
And your signature line is certainly appropriate for this topic!
06-25-2003, 06:31 PM
#21
Oh, it is definitely a manual rack. A person would have to be a pretty dull tool not to be able to tell the difference between the two.
I installed the manual rack a little over a year ago, and at the time I wrote down how many turns it took from lock-to-lock for both racks, I'll see if I can find it when I get home. My best recollection is that it was around 3.5 turns for each, and they were within a couple degrees of each other (tape on the wheel and dash as a reference) for all the counts. My only guess is that slack in the intermediate shaft U-joints could account for some deviation, but I watched for that pretty carefully. I may have to put the front end up in the air this weekend, I'll count it again then if I do.
As for how it feels on the road, well, at low speeds you do notice the need for more effort. A higher than parking lot speeds it is great though. It is actually pretty amazing how much more "feel" you have for what the front tires are doing, especially when the front end pushes. Who would have though the hydraulic system acted so much like a steering damper.
And it honestly doesn't feel any "slower" than my hydraulic rack did.
On a side note, I seem to recall Quaife making quicker 2.5 ratio steering gears for the 911 crowd, but as usual the 924/44 crowd got chumped on the deal.
I installed the manual rack a little over a year ago, and at the time I wrote down how many turns it took from lock-to-lock for both racks, I'll see if I can find it when I get home. My best recollection is that it was around 3.5 turns for each, and they were within a couple degrees of each other (tape on the wheel and dash as a reference) for all the counts. My only guess is that slack in the intermediate shaft U-joints could account for some deviation, but I watched for that pretty carefully. I may have to put the front end up in the air this weekend, I'll count it again then if I do.
As for how it feels on the road, well, at low speeds you do notice the need for more effort. A higher than parking lot speeds it is great though. It is actually pretty amazing how much more "feel" you have for what the front tires are doing, especially when the front end pushes. Who would have though the hydraulic system acted so much like a steering damper.
And it honestly doesn't feel any "slower" than my hydraulic rack did.
On a side note, I seem to recall Quaife making quicker 2.5 ratio steering gears for the 911 crowd, but as usual the 924/44 crowd got chumped on the deal.
06-26-2003, 02:16 PM
#22
Race Director
I cannot confirm not deny any change in mechical steering ratio for the manual vs power rack. I too when from power (unpowered) to manual.
Of the 3 configurations
Power rack with power
Power rack not powered
manual rack
I like the manual rack the best on the track.
Reason is the feed back. I feel it is MUCH better. When powered the it felt like there was something in between the steering wheel and the ground. When I took the power off I was like I could feel every little bit of the road. I found it much easier to apply small steering corrections and to feel what the front wheels wanted to do. With the power rack I also found my self "over-turing" the car. Becuase the input was light (on the track) I'd input MORE steering than needed. I would also tend to turn too quickly this upsetting the balance of the car.
To me that non-powered rack was much better as it make me much smoother.
The manual rack has never felt slower, but just seems to have a more direct connected feel and of course is managable in the pits (on/off trailer) where the non-powered one was a bear.
Maybe the ratio is different, but with my smaller steering wheel I like the set-up alot.
Personally I think steer ratio is little over rated. First thing that is important is feel. I'd mich rather have this rack at 3.5 turns or what ever than to have a 2.5 turn rack with less feel.
For example my 01 GTI has what seems like a much quicker steering than my race car or my Turbo. Only problem is that I have to "guess" at what the front tires will do because I do not get anything like the feedback I get in the Porsche racks. Too me "guess" is bad because it is much harder to judge if you are at the limit of adhesion in front or to correct an oversteer.
Of the 3 configurations
Power rack with power
Power rack not powered
manual rack
I like the manual rack the best on the track.
Reason is the feed back. I feel it is MUCH better. When powered the it felt like there was something in between the steering wheel and the ground. When I took the power off I was like I could feel every little bit of the road. I found it much easier to apply small steering corrections and to feel what the front wheels wanted to do. With the power rack I also found my self "over-turing" the car. Becuase the input was light (on the track) I'd input MORE steering than needed. I would also tend to turn too quickly this upsetting the balance of the car.
To me that non-powered rack was much better as it make me much smoother.
The manual rack has never felt slower, but just seems to have a more direct connected feel and of course is managable in the pits (on/off trailer) where the non-powered one was a bear.
Maybe the ratio is different, but with my smaller steering wheel I like the set-up alot.
Personally I think steer ratio is little over rated. First thing that is important is feel. I'd mich rather have this rack at 3.5 turns or what ever than to have a 2.5 turn rack with less feel.
For example my 01 GTI has what seems like a much quicker steering than my race car or my Turbo. Only problem is that I have to "guess" at what the front tires will do because I do not get anything like the feedback I get in the Porsche racks. Too me "guess" is bad because it is much harder to judge if you are at the limit of adhesion in front or to correct an oversteer.
07-29-2003, 07:38 PM
#23
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Miami, Fla.
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have read that the turbo cup car had a steering rack with a part number that does not appear in the PET catalog. I would suppose that this rack was quicker and power assisted. Does any one know where to get it or how to rebuild the steering rack using these uprated components? Im really interested in getting quicker steering........
Thanks
J.P.
Thanks
J.P.
