Ag951

I'm planning to get a front coilover kit this month.
The two I'm considering are <a href="http://www.smartcart.com/Paragon/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=944RideHeight+" target="_blank">the $240 kit from paragon</a> and <a href="http://www.ground-control.com/gcapguid.htm" target="_blank">the $199 ground controls</a>.
The ground controls come with eibach springs and Japanese import owners I know think they're awesome.
Are the paragon ones worth the $40 difference?
What spring rate should I get with whatever I decide? I'd like to lower the car about an inch.
And how can I tell if I have the sealed or unsealed struts? I have an '87 951 with no suspension options or upgrades.

Ag951

Also, what should I do with the rear to keep it even?

User 41221

Go with Jason, for a couple of reasons.

#1 He will be able to give you VERY specific advice on how to set your car up. Ground Control may be a fine company, but they are not going to be nearly as familiar with the 944 line as Jason.

#2 He is a sponsor of Rennlist. How much valuable info have you gotten from Rennlist? Its the sponsors that help make that happen.

#3 He is a genuinely nice guy, and the service you will get is top notch.

As for keeping the car even, you will have to reindex the torsion bars, or else get coil overs for the back as well.

Regards,

Dan Gallagher

ground control and paragon are the same kit except paragon gives you hypercoil (vs. eibach) and the paragon kit costs more because they include the koni bump rubbers iirc.

If you change the front ride height the torsion bars will need to be reindexed. If you keep the stock torsion bars keep close to the stock sprijng rate up front otherwise check out the following links for spring rate info:
<a href="http://members.rennlist.org/dan10101/944SpringRates.htm" target="_blank">http://members.rennlist.org/dan10101/944SpringRates.htm</a>
<a href="http://www.davidsims.ukgateway.net/944t/suspension.htm" target="_blank">http://www.davidsims.ukgateway.net/944t/suspension.htm</a>

skip do i get commission on this one now? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

eclou

Ground Control is extremely reputable and has been the set-up of choice for the BMW M3 crowd. Jay stands behind his work (as does Jason) but the company is geared only to aftermarket suspensions. It is far more specialty than Paragon, who sells all sorts of stuff. On the flip side, Paragon has been almost exclusive Porsche whereas GC is just getting into the Porsche stuff.

Eugene

adrial

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Dan Gallagher:
<strong>skip do i get commission on this one now? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">You would...except that the T-bars very well might not need to be re-indexed and the car could just be lowered using the eccentrics...as my car was. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

How'd the autox go?

--Adrial

Ken D

You can adjust (lower) the rear ride height up to 3/4 inch using the eccentrics. You do not need to reindex your torsion bars using this method.
Ideally you are looking to avoid an uneven ride height front/rear as it negatively affects brake balance.
Paragon has the procedure for adjusting the eccentrics on the Tech session of their site.

I have the Paragon coil over kit and am very happy with the quality.

Ag951

Okay. I'm going with paragon. What spring rates should I get?
I want it to be pretty stiff, for autocross and HPDE (hopefully soon).
I don't drive it anywhere rough, and I already avoid speed bumps like the plague.

Skip

A bit of a religious topic, but there's been some very recent discussion about what spring rates work best with otherwise stock cars. Much more info in the archives, but here's a summary:

For cars with 23.5mm torsion bars (like yours), the best match up front is 200#. The next step up is usually 250#, but since you are using the adjustable ride height kit your options include 225#. Anything higher than the 200# and you should consider getting the 19mm rear sway bar to help counteract the understeer. If you do get the rear sway bar, then I would personally suggest the 225# spring, maybe even the 250. Usually, the 250# is recommended only for use with the 24.5mm (944S2) or the 25.5mm (951S, 968) torsion bars. Unless you are planning on a torsion bar upgrade, go no higher than 250#.

FYI, you have sealed struts, so the Koni application for your car is the 8641-1414S (cut-n-drill insert).

Good Luck!

Ag951

I was thinking of getting a 30mm torsion bar set, since it's only $266 at paragon, at the same time I got the springs...I suppose I should have said that before. According to the site mentioned above, that equates to a 335# spring.
So to match should I get 300# or 350# in the front? I wouldn't be upset by creating a slight tendency toward oversteer, it helps in those tight hairpins.
30/19 sways are next on the list.

Skip

Oh, well in that case...

I run 30mm torsion bars with 400# springs and 30/19 sways... absolutely perfect for ME...

The front spring is ~90% effective, so you're match for that 30mm bar set is 350 or 400. Again, a religious topic.

If you're going to do the torsion bars, I highly recommend the Delrin spring plate bushings. I have half-and-half (Delrin and Weltmeister) because the Delrin wasn't available yet when I did mine. I got used to the voices in my head, but those squeaky Weltmeister bushings are driving me nucking futs!

Skip

M758

I have 350lbs springs in my spec car with 30 mm tbars. To me this is too stiff for a street car, but since my car is only 2450 lbs, it is in effect alot stiffer than if the car weighted the 3000 lbs a stock turbo does.

Check my website (below in sig)for a write up about my spec car and for a link to the procedure I wrote for simple torsion bar swapping. I works quite well.

For sway bars I perferer the weltmiesters due to their adjustabilty. It is very easy to change the balance of the car. Too me adjusting the balance of the car is VERY important at the track and if you really want to be competitve at autocross.

Alas my car is tuned so well to the track that it (and me) have lost the edge at autocross. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

Ag951

Hey Skip, do you guys have a 10% discount for PCA members like 944 racing?

Ag951

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by M758:
<strong>Alas my car is tuned so well to the track that it (and me) have lost the edge at autocross. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">You're still better than I am (that's not saying much though).

Skip

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by M758:
<strong>Alas my car is tuned so well to the track that it (and me) have lost the edge at autocross. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Amen! Why can't we have both? Oh wait, I need another car... what's your excuse? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

S