Street racing - controversy - young Vs old???
06-19-2003, 10:34 PM
#46
Nordschleife Master
After my friend adam read this thread, he felt the need to write something...so here it is...
Any responses please direct to Adam, not myself.
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I've spent enough time in adrials car to recognize the obvious differences between a 951 and lets say a civic or a neon (which is what i drive). The biggest reason that i believe accidents occur during "streetracing" is nothing more than ignorance on the part of the driver. I don't mean ignorance of the law or of other people, which is a major factor, but in fact ignorance of their cars. When im in the car with adrial doing 50 on a windy road in the 951, i notice the obvious lack of connection to the road when taking the same road in my car at the same speed.
There is a reason a porsche is a "sports car" and a civic or neon is a "family" car better suited for picking up groceries than racing, whether on a track or on the street. If drivers understood the intention and limitations of their cars, i think less accidents would occur because there would be less streatracing.
Unfortunately, people won't readily realize this so the problems will continue to occur. Also i have used civics as an example just to provide an obvious contrast, i recognize there are many other cars (including Porsche's)used for idiotic purposes.
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Any responses please direct to Adam, not myself.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">
I've spent enough time in adrials car to recognize the obvious differences between a 951 and lets say a civic or a neon (which is what i drive). The biggest reason that i believe accidents occur during "streetracing" is nothing more than ignorance on the part of the driver. I don't mean ignorance of the law or of other people, which is a major factor, but in fact ignorance of their cars. When im in the car with adrial doing 50 on a windy road in the 951, i notice the obvious lack of connection to the road when taking the same road in my car at the same speed.
There is a reason a porsche is a "sports car" and a civic or neon is a "family" car better suited for picking up groceries than racing, whether on a track or on the street. If drivers understood the intention and limitations of their cars, i think less accidents would occur because there would be less streatracing.
Unfortunately, people won't readily realize this so the problems will continue to occur. Also i have used civics as an example just to provide an obvious contrast, i recognize there are many other cars (including Porsche's)used for idiotic purposes.
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06-19-2003, 11:07 PM
#47
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by v944god:
<strong>I hate when people bring up the track when it comes down to racing and what not. The track doesn't show crap. Just because you track your car it doesnt mean you can outdrive, outhandle other drivers. We're all human, so when something happens people react in different ways.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"></strong>
This is on par with the stupidest **** I have ever read on the internet. You really ought to reconsider this statement. Because if you think that your 4-5 years of 'street driving' experience (I am assuming you are at least 21)makes you the equivelent of a driver who has track experience, you are mistaken. We can go down to the kart track and I will put 5 seconds on you every lap. And I suck, compared to guys who can really drive. Every assmonkey in the world thinks he is Michael Schumacher. You could always try putting your money where your mouth is, and go to a DE or a performance school.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>Track or no track, we all can cause accidents and kill people.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">This is the only smart thing you said. And we all ought to keep it in mind everytime we drive. Make it a Rennlist rule that nobody in a watercooler can be the cause of an accident, or he gets pink-bellied by the entire forum, or pounded into paste depending on the severity of the offence.
<strong>I hate when people bring up the track when it comes down to racing and what not. The track doesn't show crap. Just because you track your car it doesnt mean you can outdrive, outhandle other drivers. We're all human, so when something happens people react in different ways.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"></strong>
This is on par with the stupidest **** I have ever read on the internet. You really ought to reconsider this statement. Because if you think that your 4-5 years of 'street driving' experience (I am assuming you are at least 21)makes you the equivelent of a driver who has track experience, you are mistaken. We can go down to the kart track and I will put 5 seconds on you every lap. And I suck, compared to guys who can really drive. Every assmonkey in the world thinks he is Michael Schumacher. You could always try putting your money where your mouth is, and go to a DE or a performance school.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>Track or no track, we all can cause accidents and kill people.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">This is the only smart thing you said. And we all ought to keep it in mind everytime we drive. Make it a Rennlist rule that nobody in a watercooler can be the cause of an accident, or he gets pink-bellied by the entire forum, or pounded into paste depending on the severity of the offence.
06-19-2003, 11:33 PM
#48
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by v944god:
<strong>Holy ****! You people are so young yet you own brand new cars, and 951's!
I'm lost on that concept. Either you have rich parents, or you have rich parents.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">There are some younger people here that have rich parents to fund their cars, but please don't disrespect the hard work of those of us who don't. I'm 22 and my Porsches - along with everything else - are entirely mine, from my earnings. I bought the first one at 20.
Yes, racing on trafficed public streets is very stupid!
<strong>Holy ****! You people are so young yet you own brand new cars, and 951's!
I'm lost on that concept. Either you have rich parents, or you have rich parents.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">There are some younger people here that have rich parents to fund their cars, but please don't disrespect the hard work of those of us who don't. I'm 22 and my Porsches - along with everything else - are entirely mine, from my earnings. I bought the first one at 20.
Yes, racing on trafficed public streets is very stupid!
06-20-2003, 12:28 AM
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On the track, people are required to go through an inspection, wear a helmet and wear belts. They also have rule and regulations to reduce risk. Street racing requires nothing, and it shows.
Judge your risks! It is important to know when to take risk; when to dive for cover. I have seen too many friends die in cars... and in war. By far, more in cars. The results are similar, death.
Judge your risks! It is important to know when to take risk; when to dive for cover. I have seen too many friends die in cars... and in war. By far, more in cars. The results are similar, death.
06-20-2003, 12:29 AM
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Posted by badcoupe:
"I know most of you won't agree with me but hey my choice I don't care if I die at least I'll be having fun!!!!"
Please reread my previous post...my suggestion still stands...and read the last statement VERY slowly...at some point you may get it.
Michael
"I know most of you won't agree with me but hey my choice I don't care if I die at least I'll be having fun!!!!"
Please reread my previous post...my suggestion still stands...and read the last statement VERY slowly...at some point you may get it.
Michael
06-20-2003, 12:53 AM
#52
Three Wheelin'
23 - I think BeerBurner said it all best.
On the side thread, there's nothing wrong with having rich parents. If you're a ***** you're a *****, I don't care if you grew up feeding your mother and eight brothers or flying around Europe. I never know how people are gonna take it when I say I drive a Porsche, this is exactly why. Presume all you want. I know people that clawed their way up and I know last names on billboards. I know people who scrapped and scrounged for some old beater, and I know people who rolled into brand new M3s. I've seen people on both sides love their cars, not give a ****...I'm rambling, but the point is, don't pidgeon hole around here. We're all individuals.
On the side thread, there's nothing wrong with having rich parents. If you're a ***** you're a *****, I don't care if you grew up feeding your mother and eight brothers or flying around Europe. I never know how people are gonna take it when I say I drive a Porsche, this is exactly why. Presume all you want. I know people that clawed their way up and I know last names on billboards. I know people who scrapped and scrounged for some old beater, and I know people who rolled into brand new M3s. I've seen people on both sides love their cars, not give a ****...I'm rambling, but the point is, don't pidgeon hole around here. We're all individuals.
06-20-2003, 12:54 AM
#53
Race Director
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by FormulaOne10:
<strong>A few things to note here:
-Street racing is always a crime
-Street racing risks the lives of the participants and other who have not chosen to participate (the main difference between street racing and track racing - other than a complete lack of common sense).
-In my experiences, the street racers I have come across tend to be some of the stupidest and most complete tools I have ever run across. They honestly lower my expectations for the intelligence of the average person.
-Street racers are generally (and there are exceptions) not good drivers...in terms of both traffic mechanics and skill. They drive like maniacs and take unecessary risks that they aren't skillful enough to get themselves out of.
-Most street racers will not take their cars to a track (other than the occasional run at the local drag strip)...and when they do show up at an autocross with graphics and a wing on a 4 door civic - they get kick their a$$ kicked on the timing sheet.
...and I've already wasted too much time on this...I have no tolerance for these people.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><img src="http://forum.e46fanatics.com/images/smilies/werd.gif" alt=" - " />
Forgive me for being crude, but street racing is for people with little dicks. It's seldom fair and it's always dangerous.
While I'm certainly no longer under 25, I always thought street racing was stupid. I lived for my license, and beyond all the other good reasons not to street race, I wasn't going to do anything to jeopardize my license.
<strong>A few things to note here:
-Street racing is always a crime
-Street racing risks the lives of the participants and other who have not chosen to participate (the main difference between street racing and track racing - other than a complete lack of common sense).
-In my experiences, the street racers I have come across tend to be some of the stupidest and most complete tools I have ever run across. They honestly lower my expectations for the intelligence of the average person.
-Street racers are generally (and there are exceptions) not good drivers...in terms of both traffic mechanics and skill. They drive like maniacs and take unecessary risks that they aren't skillful enough to get themselves out of.
-Most street racers will not take their cars to a track (other than the occasional run at the local drag strip)...and when they do show up at an autocross with graphics and a wing on a 4 door civic - they get kick their a$$ kicked on the timing sheet.
...and I've already wasted too much time on this...I have no tolerance for these people.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><img src="http://forum.e46fanatics.com/images/smilies/werd.gif" alt=" - " />
Forgive me for being crude, but street racing is for people with little dicks. It's seldom fair and it's always dangerous.
While I'm certainly no longer under 25, I always thought street racing was stupid. I lived for my license, and beyond all the other good reasons not to street race, I wasn't going to do anything to jeopardize my license.
06-20-2003, 01:04 AM
#54
Race Director
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Tremelune:
<strong>23 - I think BeerBurner said it all best.
On the side thread, there's nothing wrong with having rich parents. If you're a ***** you're a *****, I don't care if you grew up feeding your mother and eight brothers or flying around Europe. I never know how people are gonna take it when I say I drive a Porsche, this is exactly why. Presume all you want. I know people that clawed their way up and I know last names on billboards. I know people who scrapped and scrounged for some old beater, and I know people who rolled into brand new M3s. I've seen people on both sides love their cars, not give a ****...I'm rambling, but the point is, don't pidgeon hole around here. We're all individuals. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yep. While there are certainly yongsters who don't appreciate what they are given, there are also youngsters who are given a lot and they know and appreciate it.
Four years ago when I was doing final assembly to and installing my killer engine in my Sentra SE-R, there was a young man who lives near me who came to help all weekend long. In fact, the only person who spent more time on my car than him that weekend was me. Anyhow, the point of the story is that this young man (junior in high school) drive a very sweet 951. However, he wasn't exactly given the car. He was given a budget for a car and he did a lot of research and actual searching. He finally found a really nice example within his budget ($8k) and did all the work to get it. He truly appreciated his good fortune and never abused it. I've always had the highest respect for him and have stayed in touch occasionally.
<strong>23 - I think BeerBurner said it all best.
On the side thread, there's nothing wrong with having rich parents. If you're a ***** you're a *****, I don't care if you grew up feeding your mother and eight brothers or flying around Europe. I never know how people are gonna take it when I say I drive a Porsche, this is exactly why. Presume all you want. I know people that clawed their way up and I know last names on billboards. I know people who scrapped and scrounged for some old beater, and I know people who rolled into brand new M3s. I've seen people on both sides love their cars, not give a ****...I'm rambling, but the point is, don't pidgeon hole around here. We're all individuals.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yep. While there are certainly yongsters who don't appreciate what they are given, there are also youngsters who are given a lot and they know and appreciate it.Four years ago when I was doing final assembly to and installing my killer engine in my Sentra SE-R, there was a young man who lives near me who came to help all weekend long. In fact, the only person who spent more time on my car than him that weekend was me. Anyhow, the point of the story is that this young man (junior in high school) drive a very sweet 951. However, he wasn't exactly given the car. He was given a budget for a car and he did a lot of research and actual searching. He finally found a really nice example within his budget ($8k) and did all the work to get it. He truly appreciated his good fortune and never abused it. I've always had the highest respect for him and have stayed in touch occasionally.
06-20-2003, 01:24 AM
#56
Nordschleife Master
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Dan Gallagher:
there is a difference between that once in a blue moon event and the kids who are racing between red lights on hempsted turnpike every night of the week (keep going about 2 miles east of nassau coliseum on that road at night).[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I know exactly where you are talking about. Ill be honest, i took my 1967 Mustang out their one nice summer night...just noone would race me.
Im 17 and have been driving a little over a year now. I got my Porsche 924S in August of '02 and have learned its not a drag racer. Im my opionion street racing is stupid, i totally agree that if you want to drag race goto a drag strip or if you want to drive like a maniac goto a track.
Even though i really am not much of a drag racer, i admit i do drive fast sometimes (ok you got me, most of the time) when i feel its less of a risk (yes i know its risky no matter what) of something unexpected happening. I push the car around corners and on the expressway only when their is noone else around, i dont go around cutting in between traffic with just barley enough space to fit my car through. Im not into intentionally putting people in danger like that.
Its not very often though that i get people who want to stop-light drag me when im in the 924S. I think its contributed to the fact that i dont think many people know what to expect when they see a 944 or 924. Their is only one other 924S and a 944 in my area, and i know that the 944 is a weekend only car. Everyone in my highschool believed that i had without a doubt the fastest car in the entire senior parking lot just because of the Porsche crest on the front. The only people who knew it could probably easily (very easily at that) be beaten in a drag race by the Camaro or countless BMWs was my consumer autoteacher (he would tease me about my 'audi' engine) and a few close friends. I just let everyone believe what they wanted to...
Ive learned to take it easy though. My friend had a 2 week old Nissan Sentra SE-R. By no means was this just an average Sentra, its pretty quick. He got into a pretty bad accident. Even though it really wasnt his fault (woman in SUV on cellphone) when i drove past the car i saw just how devistating a crash at 30mph can be, let alone at 60mph. He wasnt hurt, walked away...but it made me open my eyes a bit.
Besides, i cant drag race well in the Mustang anyway...i have really bad tires on it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
there is a difference between that once in a blue moon event and the kids who are racing between red lights on hempsted turnpike every night of the week (keep going about 2 miles east of nassau coliseum on that road at night).[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I know exactly where you are talking about. Ill be honest, i took my 1967 Mustang out their one nice summer night...just noone would race me.
Im 17 and have been driving a little over a year now. I got my Porsche 924S in August of '02 and have learned its not a drag racer. Im my opionion street racing is stupid, i totally agree that if you want to drag race goto a drag strip or if you want to drive like a maniac goto a track.
Even though i really am not much of a drag racer, i admit i do drive fast sometimes (ok you got me, most of the time) when i feel its less of a risk (yes i know its risky no matter what) of something unexpected happening. I push the car around corners and on the expressway only when their is noone else around, i dont go around cutting in between traffic with just barley enough space to fit my car through. Im not into intentionally putting people in danger like that.
Its not very often though that i get people who want to stop-light drag me when im in the 924S. I think its contributed to the fact that i dont think many people know what to expect when they see a 944 or 924. Their is only one other 924S and a 944 in my area, and i know that the 944 is a weekend only car. Everyone in my highschool believed that i had without a doubt the fastest car in the entire senior parking lot just because of the Porsche crest on the front. The only people who knew it could probably easily (very easily at that) be beaten in a drag race by the Camaro or countless BMWs was my consumer autoteacher (he would tease me about my 'audi' engine) and a few close friends. I just let everyone believe what they wanted to...
Ive learned to take it easy though. My friend had a 2 week old Nissan Sentra SE-R. By no means was this just an average Sentra, its pretty quick. He got into a pretty bad accident. Even though it really wasnt his fault (woman in SUV on cellphone) when i drove past the car i saw just how devistating a crash at 30mph can be, let alone at 60mph. He wasnt hurt, walked away...but it made me open my eyes a bit.
Besides, i cant drag race well in the Mustang anyway...i have really bad tires on it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
06-20-2003, 02:16 AM
#57
Nordschleife Master
I had posted a few months back what happened to me in my other 944, when I stumbled right into the middle of a street race on the way to a friend's house. That was not only not fun, it was dangerous for me, since they thought I was intentionally crashing their party, and started to throw **** at me, not to mention the cars buzzing me.
I had to drive for my life, straight down the left-turn lane, to get the hell out of there! I had to save my life. i couldn't believe the jerks were chasing me, yelling and screaming. I still don't know if they had guns or not.
But then, looking at it from their side, they had just started the race when this unscheduled 944 makes a left onto the street, going the same way. Too wierd for me.
I have to agree with Pat wholeheartedly.
Take it to the track. Period.
- Julie
I had to drive for my life, straight down the left-turn lane, to get the hell out of there! I had to save my life. i couldn't believe the jerks were chasing me, yelling and screaming. I still don't know if they had guns or not.
But then, looking at it from their side, they had just started the race when this unscheduled 944 makes a left onto the street, going the same way. Too wierd for me.
I have to agree with Pat wholeheartedly.
Take it to the track. Period.
- Julie
06-20-2003, 02:33 AM
#58
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Personally, i think many people that drag are inexperienced. To make the choice and continue illegal street racing after you are experienced is suicide and stupidity. Your time will come. Streets are soo unperfect. Potholes, elevations, breaks, and a million other things that can't wait to disrupt your cars balance at high speed. In a blink of an eye its done. Are you good enough to recover from a sudden change that throws your car. 3 people racing just died down the street from me due to lack of control. I am young myself, and i would never have the urge to do this. If you have been driving less than 5 years, i doubt you can actually control a vehicle properly at high speed or in an emergency. (you never know, some people have proper training from the beginning...but even then, 20 years may do nothing without proper instruction) Also, you ever seen your friend splatter? I think just once is all it would take. I know one friend who lost their life, and another who through stupidity cost someone a limb. Is it worth it. Your 0-60 times impress no one. And the fact that one car beat the other one in a 1/4 mile is a joke. A souped up grocery getter that is quick to 100 is nothing. Lets see it handle at 160, lets see it display control through turns at 70 . Cars are like guns, there a proper place to practice use of them, otherwise its murder.
06-20-2003, 03:16 AM
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During the 5 years i've been going to the street races I've seen 1 minor fender bender.
During the 3 year's i've been going to the track I've seen 5 cars totalled.
Want pics? I have them.
I know for a fact that most of you that are saying "I hate it etc" have street raced before.
"never say never".
My friend who pumped up the crap out of his 951 jumped on the freeway to go to the Porsche dealership. I was following him because he was dropping it off. Next thing I know a black 996 pulls up to him and they both speed off to speeds in excess of 140mph. The guy in the 996 was grey haired with a lady with him. My friend called me 5 minutes later to tell me where he was.
Dan you don't know me, so if you want to chat i'm more than willing. Don't sterotype me.
During the 3 year's i've been going to the track I've seen 5 cars totalled.
Want pics? I have them.
I know for a fact that most of you that are saying "I hate it etc" have street raced before.
"never say never".
My friend who pumped up the crap out of his 951 jumped on the freeway to go to the Porsche dealership. I was following him because he was dropping it off. Next thing I know a black 996 pulls up to him and they both speed off to speeds in excess of 140mph. The guy in the 996 was grey haired with a lady with him. My friend called me 5 minutes later to tell me where he was.
Dan you don't know me, so if you want to chat i'm more than willing. Don't sterotype me.