Another Problem, Severe overheating. I might throw in the towel with this car
05-06-2002, 08:02 AM
#1
Three Wheelin'
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Another Problem, Severe overheating. I might throw in the towel with this car
This car has been everything to me for a while. After I bought I I did the usual tune up. Then the drive axles went, then the clutch went, then the shifter bushings. Then just about every oil seal known to man. Then the starter motor. Brake calipers froze. And now my car is severly overheating. I just may throw in the towel. I already had a new waterpump put in when the oil seals were replaced, with a new thermostat. yet the car still quickly overheats. When I pull out of my driveway, by the time i get to the end of my street I am allmost in the red zone. I cant keep doing this!
Christian
Christian
05-06-2002, 08:35 AM
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Sounds like my first 951! Since you've already made the investment in the clutch and waterpump, maybe you should wait to see if the overheating is a major or minor problem before giving up.
There are a few easy things to check and try:
1) Is there enough coolant in the expansion tank? Sorry, but I had to ask. ;>
2) Get the car up on jackstands and look for any obvious leaks. If there is a hose clamp loose, you may be losing coolant. Coolant has a stong sweet smell, so follow your nose!
3) If these is enough coolant in the expansion tank, try bleeding the cooling system. If there are air bubbles caught in the hoses, the car would react just as you described - even with a full coolant tank. It may take a few bleedings to get it done right. Take a short drive between each bleeding.
4) Check the thermostat(s) that were replaced with the water pump. If one or both of them were installed backwards, you might have the problem that you described.
Give these a try and see if it doesn't help the situation. Let us know how it came out.
There are a few easy things to check and try:
1) Is there enough coolant in the expansion tank? Sorry, but I had to ask. ;>
2) Get the car up on jackstands and look for any obvious leaks. If there is a hose clamp loose, you may be losing coolant. Coolant has a stong sweet smell, so follow your nose!
3) If these is enough coolant in the expansion tank, try bleeding the cooling system. If there are air bubbles caught in the hoses, the car would react just as you described - even with a full coolant tank. It may take a few bleedings to get it done right. Take a short drive between each bleeding.
4) Check the thermostat(s) that were replaced with the water pump. If one or both of them were installed backwards, you might have the problem that you described.
Give these a try and see if it doesn't help the situation. Let us know how it came out.
05-06-2002, 09:57 AM
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My money pit is a Turbo S, but I've had some over heating issues that I've been dealing with, and here is what I've learned...
First off, the car will run MUCH cooler w/about half the amount of coolant in the system and the other half air, ON the FREEWAY, but will overheat when sitting in stop and go. When I changed mechanics, we found that the original idiot (RPM in Knoxville TN- they went bankrupt soon after) didn't bleed the system- we added more than a GALLON of coolant- I sh** you not! RPM was supposed to change the waterpump, timing belt, thermostat, temp switch, etc. Anyway, after getting the right amount of coolant in there, the car ran hotter on the freeway, but cooler on the street- much more balanced, but still too hot- I'd almost prefer it the other way. Anyway, I bought a new radiator cap- it seems like a silly thing, but I noticed a tiny difference (I've gotten good at getting pretty fu**ing technical w/this car)- these cars are VERY picky when the pressurized system has even the slightest leak in it. I bought a new radiator- TINY bit of help. Then, my mech found out that the idiots (RPM) didn't hook up the water pump correctly- he used one of several types of water pumps that were made for our cars- a standard one from way back- it was for both NA and 951's- it had a hole w/a plug in it for the NA's, and for the turbo's, the plug was supposed to be drilled out and a hose was hooked up to it to run the coolant through the turbo- he hooked up the hose, BUT DIDN'T BOTHER TO DRILL THE FU**ING PLUG OUT!!! That made a tiny bit of difference as well. Anyway, I'm about to give up too, as it's still running about 1/4 - 1/2 marker too high- oh, and BTW, I DID buy a new temp sending unit, which is what I would advise you to at least check- it sounds kind of strange that your car could even have the ability to get into the red by the time you get to the end of your street, even if there is no coolant, or even air flow over the engine, or nothing, unless you have a really long road and/or take a long-*** time warming up the car before you drive. Anyway, good luck- hope this helps a little- if not, GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL CAN! I've got ~$21K in a $9K Turbo S w/155K miles (now) and really haven't done too many cool things to it at all- it's just breaking me down- now I'm looking at the engine (bottom end- already did the top when my FU**ING HEAD GASKET FAILED) and a new suspension, etc...
First off, the car will run MUCH cooler w/about half the amount of coolant in the system and the other half air, ON the FREEWAY, but will overheat when sitting in stop and go. When I changed mechanics, we found that the original idiot (RPM in Knoxville TN- they went bankrupt soon after) didn't bleed the system- we added more than a GALLON of coolant- I sh** you not! RPM was supposed to change the waterpump, timing belt, thermostat, temp switch, etc. Anyway, after getting the right amount of coolant in there, the car ran hotter on the freeway, but cooler on the street- much more balanced, but still too hot- I'd almost prefer it the other way. Anyway, I bought a new radiator cap- it seems like a silly thing, but I noticed a tiny difference (I've gotten good at getting pretty fu**ing technical w/this car)- these cars are VERY picky when the pressurized system has even the slightest leak in it. I bought a new radiator- TINY bit of help. Then, my mech found out that the idiots (RPM) didn't hook up the water pump correctly- he used one of several types of water pumps that were made for our cars- a standard one from way back- it was for both NA and 951's- it had a hole w/a plug in it for the NA's, and for the turbo's, the plug was supposed to be drilled out and a hose was hooked up to it to run the coolant through the turbo- he hooked up the hose, BUT DIDN'T BOTHER TO DRILL THE FU**ING PLUG OUT!!! That made a tiny bit of difference as well. Anyway, I'm about to give up too, as it's still running about 1/4 - 1/2 marker too high- oh, and BTW, I DID buy a new temp sending unit, which is what I would advise you to at least check- it sounds kind of strange that your car could even have the ability to get into the red by the time you get to the end of your street, even if there is no coolant, or even air flow over the engine, or nothing, unless you have a really long road and/or take a long-*** time warming up the car before you drive. Anyway, good luck- hope this helps a little- if not, GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL CAN! I've got ~$21K in a $9K Turbo S w/155K miles (now) and really haven't done too many cool things to it at all- it's just breaking me down- now I'm looking at the engine (bottom end- already did the top when my FU**ING HEAD GASKET FAILED) and a new suspension, etc...
05-06-2002, 10:58 AM
#5
Three Wheelin'
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just because the gauge says that its hot, doenst mean it really is.. mine pegs up around the 3/4's mark after driving for about 5-10 minutes.. i DOUBT its possible for the engine to create THAT much heat in such a short ammount of time.. DONT WORRY YOURSELF>
SHAUN
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05-06-2002, 01:17 PM
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Since you hadn't mentioned whether you bleeded the air out of the cooling system, I would suggest that first (Im sure others have mentioned that).
I am presently going through my own little hot running 944 problem.
It might take more than 1 try to fully bleed out the air. If you can, try to park the car with the front end of the car up on an incline. car ramps or a incline driveway will work.
Let the car warm up to the first white mark, and slowly loosen the bleed valve, when coolant starts to run out of the valve, you have gotten most or all of the air out. It may take more than one try. try it after every drive for a day or two.
If you are still having the same temp, I'll try to keep you informed as to my own situation.
johnK
also, let us know how your fans are operating.
I am presently going through my own little hot running 944 problem.
It might take more than 1 try to fully bleed out the air. If you can, try to park the car with the front end of the car up on an incline. car ramps or a incline driveway will work.
Let the car warm up to the first white mark, and slowly loosen the bleed valve, when coolant starts to run out of the valve, you have gotten most or all of the air out. It may take more than one try. try it after every drive for a day or two.
If you are still having the same temp, I'll try to keep you informed as to my own situation.
johnK
also, let us know how your fans are operating.
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05-06-2002, 01:31 PM
#8
Nordschleife Master
Another thing to take a look at is the fins of the radiator and A/C condenser. A lot of road debris and bugs can collect there and really mess up air flow. You can make a simple hook tool out of some wire and comb all the junk out.
05-06-2002, 02:11 PM
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Robby, that is unbelievable that they didn't both to drill out that hole!
DerSchlechtSpecht, You can take the radiator hose connected to the waterpump off and check the orientation of the thermostat. If it's in backwards there's you problem. Also check for mice that get stuck in the upper radiator hose.
DerSchlechtSpecht, You can take the radiator hose connected to the waterpump off and check the orientation of the thermostat. If it's in backwards there's you problem. Also check for mice that get stuck in the upper radiator hose.
05-06-2002, 11:54 PM
#10
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Guys,
Thanks for all of the suggestions. So far this is where we are. Thermostat good, right orientation. Hoses good. System bled well. Not a DME or temp gauge problem because the car really is overheating. No oil mixed in with coolant, no coolant mixed in with oil. The car even overheats when driving in excess of 120 mph. No debris infront of, nearby, or anything by the AC condencer and radiator. Im leaing towards a bad radiator.
Christian
Thanks for all of the suggestions. So far this is where we are. Thermostat good, right orientation. Hoses good. System bled well. Not a DME or temp gauge problem because the car really is overheating. No oil mixed in with coolant, no coolant mixed in with oil. The car even overheats when driving in excess of 120 mph. No debris infront of, nearby, or anything by the AC condencer and radiator. Im leaing towards a bad radiator.
Christian
05-07-2002, 03:32 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by DerSchlechtSpecht:
<strong>Guys,
by the AC condencer and radiator. Im leaing towards a bad radiator.
Christian</strong><hr></blockquote>
before you shell out money for a new radiator, try this to "sanitize" your present one.
remove the radiator from the car, lay it on it's fornt side. with the hose fittings facing up. fill the radiator up with a strong degreasing checmical.
i use castrol "superclean", i guess gasoline or any solvent would work.
let it sit overnight or 2 if you can, the next day pour out the chemical into a clean tub or bucket, and you will see the grime and scaling that pours out. on my radiator, i had alot of small white scaly bits and some brown oily stuff pour out.
using a graden hose, i noticed a water would would flow through it much better.
rinse well with water before installing on your car.
it might save you a 200-300 bucks.
run a mizture of coalant/water and some simply green (any mild cleaning agent will do) through the system and flush once or twice.
i think this has solved my high temp problem.
hope this helps. let me know if you need any more info.
Johnk944
(plz excuse my spelling, it's late here)
<strong>Guys,
by the AC condencer and radiator. Im leaing towards a bad radiator.
Christian</strong><hr></blockquote>
before you shell out money for a new radiator, try this to "sanitize" your present one.
remove the radiator from the car, lay it on it's fornt side. with the hose fittings facing up. fill the radiator up with a strong degreasing checmical.
i use castrol "superclean", i guess gasoline or any solvent would work.
let it sit overnight or 2 if you can, the next day pour out the chemical into a clean tub or bucket, and you will see the grime and scaling that pours out. on my radiator, i had alot of small white scaly bits and some brown oily stuff pour out.
using a graden hose, i noticed a water would would flow through it much better.
rinse well with water before installing on your car.
it might save you a 200-300 bucks.
run a mizture of coalant/water and some simply green (any mild cleaning agent will do) through the system and flush once or twice.
i think this has solved my high temp problem.
hope this helps. let me know if you need any more info.
Johnk944
(plz excuse my spelling, it's late here)
05-07-2002, 07:52 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by JohnK944:
<strong>If you can, try to park the car with the front end of the car up on an incline. car ramps or a incline driveway will work.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just curious - I've read about bleeding the 944's in several FAQ's / documents etc. and am curious as to why they always say "front up an incline". If you have air trapped in the top of the radiator, wouldn't it be better to bleed it out with the front *down* an incline?
Or possibly, do both - one after the other?
<strong>If you can, try to park the car with the front end of the car up on an incline. car ramps or a incline driveway will work.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just curious - I've read about bleeding the 944's in several FAQ's / documents etc. and am curious as to why they always say "front up an incline". If you have air trapped in the top of the radiator, wouldn't it be better to bleed it out with the front *down* an incline?
Or possibly, do both - one after the other?
05-07-2002, 10:51 AM
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Burning Brakes
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It really sounds like you are not moving the water around. Might try and disconect the outlet hose and start car to see if it is actually moving the water.. just a thought.. it will be messy but then you will know if the water pump is working..IF you are moving the water. The rate at which you describe the over heat has to be head leakage.. and you shouldnot drive your car at 120 if overheating.. alumminum warps easy...
05-07-2002, 01:55 PM
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Type_LT,
Yes, it amazed me! What's really screwed up is, since the water pump had just been replaced, and we were working on so many other areas to locate the prob (we just ASSUMED there was nothing wrong w/the new waterpump, etc), that I ended up driving it that way (no coolant getting through turbo) for right at a YEAR! I'm impressed that the turbo still runs fine- it's even got 155K on it now, in addition to that situation...
Christian,
Yes, I would probably either clean the existing radiator or just buy a new one- mine was $225 I believe, and the labor would be the same as if you just removed yours and cleaned it, although cleaning sometimes works just as well anyway-really just depends...
Good luck,
Robby
Yes, it amazed me! What's really screwed up is, since the water pump had just been replaced, and we were working on so many other areas to locate the prob (we just ASSUMED there was nothing wrong w/the new waterpump, etc), that I ended up driving it that way (no coolant getting through turbo) for right at a YEAR! I'm impressed that the turbo still runs fine- it's even got 155K on it now, in addition to that situation...
Christian,
Yes, I would probably either clean the existing radiator or just buy a new one- mine was $225 I believe, and the labor would be the same as if you just removed yours and cleaned it, although cleaning sometimes works just as well anyway-really just depends...
Good luck,
Robby