Robby

Paul,

I'm not a suspension expert, but I would think you would want to either increase your front spring rates, OR, get smaller t-bars for the rear before concerning yourself w/sways. I say this b/c from the first time I read about your 31mm t-bars, I thought to myself that you would need at LEAST 300lb springs to even come close to matching- as one person responded a few messages ago- the effective wheel rate is 384 (I believe). Another thing would be matching the shocks to the spring/t-bars- I'm not sure what you have there...

Good luck,
Robby

Luke

This is an exerpt from Porsche 911: Road Cars - Dennis Adler


"When the Turbo first hit America, owners who were unfamiliar with the situation race drivers like to call "tailing throttle oversteer" found themselves destined for costly visits to the body shop. In any given corner, near or at the limit, the immediate instinct of an inexperienced driver was to back off the throttle, a serious eror with the Turbo. This caused the back end to lift and the wheels to toe out, immediately inducing acute oversteer. Since the Turbo Carrera's basic power-on behavio was terminal understeer, once you were committed, hte proper method was to stay on the throttle, correct with steering input, and let the car do what it was engineered to do. "


Danno, You were absolutley right

Mr. Bates - Masta2U

[quote] once you were committed, hte proper method was to stay on the throttle, correct with steering input, and let the car do what it was engineered to do. <hr></blockquote>

So if the car does what its engineered to do and the driver looses it whose fault is it?

The reason paul lost it was either because of the loose nut behind the wheel or driver error! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />

Luke

I think the author was refering to how the car was engineered to "go straight". Because of your "doctor" incident we have understeering pigs from the factory, as a safety net.

SGOGT4

does anyone have a link to the actual story regarding this "doctor" and the law suit. I think a lot of us would be interested in reading up on it!

Thanks

Tabor

Bates,

Most of the members here at Rennlist would have a good deal of trouble with Paul's suspension setup. I would guess you would have crashed too.

Mr. Bates - Masta2U

Tabor,
I probably would have crashed too. But I wouldn't have come on the board crying like paul did, and try to make it something other than my own fault like paul did a few weeks ago. then I wouldn't go around cursing other board members and bragging about f&*king their wifes like paul did...

I also wouldnt start driving a newly purchased car until i knew it was safe or at least knew what i had. front wheels visibly out of alignment cumon you gotta be kiddin!!!
I wonder if paul is another name for craig? I didnt think anyone could make craig look smart but paul sure did!

the litigation that nearly put porsche out of business took place in the late 70s just after th 930 was introduced in the usa. it was in the auto rags for years.

see being a 27 year old bookworm has its rewards.

Robby

I'm not trying to get involved in the argument, but as I said before, and several others have mentioned, a 31mm bar is too large for most springs (street)- I thought that from the start, of course then I thought the right spring rate would be a little over 300lb, but have now seen that it's almost 400lb- even worse. If Paul was aware that the car had such a misbalanced set-up, then he would, hopefully, have taken it a bit easier. Maybe it's a lesson (a costly one) about knowing exactly how the car handles before driving it, but I still feel for him- I think, based on what I've read, that a more normal (or stock) susp set-up might have prevented the whole thing...

Paul-

Changing the sways might help a little, but I think the best thing to do is decide where you might want the whole susp to be when you get it going again- no sense in replacing those t-bars if you think you might want a fairly firm susp- you can just go to 375 or 400lb springs up front, and install new shocks(?)- then the hardest (most expensive) part- t-bars- is already done. If I were you, I would want to know exactly what shocks I had in the car and to know if they were valved correctly- if the rear shocks are stock, only w/the larger t-bars, then you would have yet another prob right there, as the t-bars and shocks wouldn't be working together correctly- in any case, if you're looking for a fairly stiff susp, then you've got the back almost where you want it- the rest should be simple. Also, if you are into auto-X, then you might want a stiffer susp, w/a slightly stiffer rear, to help the rear end come around a little easier, again- a LITTLE easier, not as easily as it did when you wrecked it- either that, or you get used to it and handle it w/kid gloves

Luke

[quote]Originally posted by Mr. Bates - Masta2U:
<strong>the litigation that nearly put porsche out of business took place in the late 70s just after th 930 was introduced in the usa. it was in the auto rags for years.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

So why dont you cry about it

<img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />

Big cry baby <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />

(sniff sniff)

little mr. bates is a cry baby

Paul Kroenke

Someone asked what kind of shocks they are. They are the very hard to find koni adjustable sports. Supposedly my friend got some of the last ones that, I think it was performance products, could find. Spent $1600 total I think.

The answer why I took it out when I knew it wasnt all good is simple. First, I didnt really know. I didnt know about the torsion bars. I knew they had some, not how big. Second, I did know of course about the alignment, that is why I took it around the block. Well maybe like a mile total. No bidg deal, right? That is why I took it out and that is why I was so surprised it happened.

Masta Bater-the only one crying around here is you. boo hoo my wife, waa waa porsche is gonna beat us up for giving out stuff, sniffle sniffle meanie paul is picking on me. I didnt even talk about it all all for a while until the BLF came up, then I thought well I do need a little help now cause of this, maybe I can get some. Come on, first of all all that stuff was funny as hell. Second, I did it to make a point. If you arent going to lay out a logical arguement, but instead make personal attacks and repeat the same thing, over and over and over again well I can do that too. Since you will not listen to reason, your mind can never be changed. I bet when you read stuff from people you hate, you read it constantly picking it apart as you go, or repeating your mantra "hes a punk *** kid" in your head. What you should be doing is accepting the other persons view for a while and think about it. At least thats what free thinkers do.

To the guy about the skid pad, no I hadnt tracked it yet, but I did play with it a little in some good spots. They cleared out a whole parkway of tons of houses, where I used to live before they made us move. Its even a dead end, so that is usually where we make our gtech runs and screw around. Or there is a rather large parking lot at this park thing we sometimes go to. All I have to do is turn the wheels and give it gas, and the 280hp pushes the wheels right around.

And one last thing. The car didnt actually spin out as I said before. The read end slid out pointing me toward the sidewalk, pushed me forward, I clipped the hydrant, and that spun me around a little more, maybe 20-30 degrees away from facing traffic.

I think this addresses all the issues everyone pointed out.

Paul K

Mr. Bates - Masta2U

Puke,
I didnt know i was cryin till ya told me. thanx pal. why dont you tell us bout the litigation and other porsche history since you know so much?

nothin like another brite lite on the board.

Luke

[quote]Originally posted by Mr. Bates - Masta2U:
<strong>Puke,
nothin like another brite lite on the board. </strong><hr></blockquote>

You dont even exist.....

I have gone too far. I am Sorry I said those things about you Paul.

I am sure I have offended many of the listers as Bates, and I apologize.

My doctor says that it isn't healthy for me to take my anger out on others, especially on a public forum. I guess it is pretty cowardly of me to desguise all of my sarcastic responses and scathing, hypocritical comments under a different identity And now it is starting to get out of hand.

I am very sorry about littering this wonderful forum with all my stupid "bate's" posts. I thought it would be more obvious that I was Bates. I mean, that's why he didn't have a "car", "location", or a real life! I realize that I have a serious problem. I really need your assistance to help me stop though. If I ever post as Bates again, I need you to tell me .........Just tell me to "SHUT UP" in fact! Please.

once again. I am SO sorry guys.

adrial

Ooops, I crapped my pants. Good thing I'm wearing the Adult diaper!

hehehe...SNL is great.

Pizza? I like pizzaaa....

It all makes sense now...hehehaha...
Luke's a masta bata, hence master bates...

TV dun diddly messed me up...

Mr. Bates - Masta2U

youre gonna have to try harder than that to get to the dark side luke my son!

You arent even close to claiming the coveted biggest *** on the board award!

now dont get me started on the crybaby award.

adrial

Shut up masta bata...