Dan/87/944na

Well some of you may remember my oil pressure problem in my car...(I will have pressure then none then pressure again but it always drops to zero) I have given up on it and I think I am going to do the renegade hybrid thing (If I put more money in the car I want power). I have put too much money in the car as it is and would lose a lot if I sold it as is. the whole top end is brand new and I had everthing replated and Polished. I painted the cam cover. It is nice clean engine. would it be worth much if I parted it out? I hate to do this but I got the car to drive and I did that for only one week in the last year. Here is a photo of the engine





thanks all...dan

Dan/87/944na

All I wanted to know is if the cam cover, polished intake manifold, and such is worth anything...thanks dan

Bri Bro

Before you give up you might want to take a deep breath, put on a good pair of work shoes and kick the **** out of a tire. Now doesn't that feel better? You got to show these machines who is the boss.

Have you put taken off the oil sender and put on a mechanical gauge to see what is really happening? Do the valves start making noise when the pressure drops? I know you were working on the pressure relief valve, what happened?

951and944S

Dan, I noticed in your posting of "who you are and post your picture" thread, that you are into climbing and hiking, outdoors, etc.
I'm into trekking and bouldering, and I'd like to do some climbing, have a friend that just completed the AT, from Maine to Georgia, straight thru hike.

Secondly I know these cars, moreso the 16V S and the turbo, but I've worked on a few 8V N/A cars also. I reconstruct 951's as a sideline to my transmission repair shop, and I'd like to help get your problems resolved.
Your engine looks great, and I'd sure hate to see another 944 go by the wayside.
What do you figure on spending on a conversion?
Surely you have other Porsche related alternatives.
There's a 16V S engine in the classified for sale, cheap, and that would give you the extra power, Re: your signature, "still not fast"..!
This is not any type of a sales pitch, I know the cooler problems and all associated parts, so, I'm offering my help to preserve your car at least in the true Porsche form.
Verify engine oil pressure asbeab951 said, install a remote gauge, with hose, to the sending unit thread location,
check torque on front crakshaft bolt as skip said. The bolt torque insures that the oil pump drive gear is being turned.
Remove the oil pump if necessary for inspection,
I believe your problem is with the regulator valve. Fragile area and easy to get wrong parts for, and your pic's of the thread bore look strange, to say the least.

Tell a little more precisely about what you have done so far...........

Dan/87/944na

here is how it started[ I rebuilt the top end last year and it ran great for some time and then one day about a block from my house the oil pressure light came on and the lifters started making tapit sounds.]....I rechecked torque on front crakshaft bolt as skip said. I checked the pressure relief valve again (I have 1 o-ring on it as I can't tell were to put the second)....I just re-did the oil cooler seals and had zero pressure and the next day I tried to start it and had pressure on startup and I never moved the car?!?..I'm just clueless.....I have not used a mechanical gauge for the fact that when my gauge shows pressure I do not hear the lifters and when it drops I here the lifters very soon after and then I shut down. .....as 951and944S stated.I believe your problem is with the regulator valve. Fragile area and easy to get wrong parts for, and your pic's of the thread bore look strange, to say the least. I agree but I can't find a photo of the new style valve with o-rings and such......Anybody? If I do the LT-1 swap I am looking at about 5 grand plus suspension and brakes.....but I would have 300+ hp which would be nice and I would keep the car (I was going to sell my car and get a 951 before this problem happend and If I put more money in the car as is I would be losing money bigtime when I sell it).....thank for the support...I'm near chicago if anyone wants to take a gander.....and yes beab951 I did kick some things and feel better.....glad to see your in to the outdoors also 951and944S ...I will be going out west for some climbing soon....dan

Bri Bro

I like to go out the San Juan Mountains in Sept and go up to the Chicago basin. From there you can climb four 14s...nice stuff.

Here is Tech bulletin #3 that covers oil cooler and pressure relief valves.


<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Tech3_1.jpg" target="_blank">Tech3 1</a>
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Tech3_2.jpg" target="_blank">Tech3 2</a>
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Tech3_3.jpg" target="_blank">Tech3 3</a>
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Tec3_4.jpg" target="_blank">Tech3 4</a>
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Tech3_5.jpg" target="_blank">Tech3 5</a>
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Tech3_6.jpg" target="_blank">Tech3 6</a>

Dan/87/944na

thanks for those tech photos!!! they are great were do you get those? I did swap my pressure valve with a new style used one and had the same luck. It sounds llike it would be the valve but what are the chances of me having two bad valves and how would a valve just go bad one day. I just don't want to buy a new one for $200.00 and have the same thing......I'm still clueless......can't wait to go climb some volcanos this summer..(rainier, adams, baker.......)and get my mind of my car...dan

951and944S

LOL, you ARE out west to me......

What about the block, the hole where the oring seats, is it OK..?

OIL Becomes thinner as it heats up, and pump wear or clearance out of spec, would cause this problem also.

You really need a mechanical gauge to verify the pressure and remove a faulty sending unit or panel gauge from the equation, however lifter noise probably means actual pressure problems.

Consider the S engine at all..?
3.0 968 engine..?
Close in power and torque, to your planned transplant, an will keep the car's balance..

I'd fix the oil pressure problems an get the 951.
The brakes and suspenson just weren't designed to
cope with the extra weight of the v8 IMO..

Feel free to email me, I'd like to help you resolve the probs and enjoy the car...

944t@bellsouth.net

Bri Bro

The pages are from the Parts and Technical Reference Catalog
Water cooled Models
924,944 and 928 Models 1977-1988
1999 Edition

It has most of the part number for these models and nice illustrations.

Maybe the oil flow is being restricted, oil filter...blockage on the oil pickup in the oil pan what else?? The comment about the oil pump with temp is true but it sounds like your problem is more like a switch, it works fine then it doesn't. What is your pressure at when it works? Might want to run some engine cleaner in the oil, drain it to see what comes out.

Joel

My friend just went through this with his 951 rebuild. It turned out that he put a pulley that helps drive the oil pump on backwards. It took quite a long time to figure out. He ended up pulling the engine again and startd taking things apart. That's when he discovered the problem. Once that was fixed the low oil pressure problem went away.

Schneider

Dan,
I helped a guy with a VERY similar problem on an 84 NA. We tried 3 different valves, including a new one. We were stumped. We resolved ourselves to put a different motor in (he had an extra from a parted out 83).

Anyway, when we pulled the motor, we took the oil pan off and found A CRACKED OIL PICK-UP TUBE! we changed the pick up tube, re-installed the motor and it ran perfect. What was happening was that every time the motor was turned off, the pump lost "prime." Then, when we started it, it would suck air from the crankcase instead of oil from the bottom of the pan.

I know you don't want to pull the motor only to find this is not the problem. So, here's a suggestion I got from another smart 944 guy. Over fill the oil by about 2 or 3 quarts. Maybe even start the car and and oil to see if it quiets down. If the pressure stays up, then it's the pick up tube. If you still have sporatic pressure, it probably is the relief valve. If it is the tube, it's not very easy to take off the pan without pulling the motor but I know there are guys on this board who have done it.

Try it. You can always drain the extra oil back out. And what does it cost you? 2-3 quarts of oil.

If you want more explanaition, email me off line.

Good Luck!

Dan/87/944na

Thanks again all for helping me out on this...I will try the overfilling of the Oil asap and see if it is in fact the oil pick.....that makes sense. If it is in fact the pick up I will just do the conversion because If I put more money in the car I will lose a lot when I sell it, and If I do the conversion I will keep the car....thanks again...dan

I think this has to be the best discussion board...

Dan/87/944na

well I put 1.5qts over and it runs fine.....so I gues that means I have a cracked pick up? How hard and how much to fix that? thanks all

Schneider

Glad that helped.
Interesting enough, there are a lot of guys who recommend running over the mark to help out the dreaded #4 bearing starvation thing. I know many 944 guys that run extra oil to help this bearing problem. Ask Skip about starving out bearings!

If you want to fix it right, you have to pull the oil pan off. This means supporting the motor from up top and pulling the entire front suspension off. I can't remember who did it recently, but I know someone on this board posted the proceedure with pics. It is certainly not beyond the average mechanic to DIY. It's best to get the factory manuals and follow the engine pull proceedure up to the point of "pulling."

I would start another post on "pulling oil pan off in-car," and I'm sure you would get some feedback.

Good Luck!

Skip

[quote]Originally posted by Schneider:
<strong>Ask Skip about starving out bearings!</strong><hr></blockquote>

What... huh... oh yeah, it suck$

[quote]<strong>It's best to get the factory manuals and follow the engine pull proceedure up to the point of "pulling."</strong><hr></blockquote>

You mean 'buy them'? Perish the thought

[quote]<strong>I would start another post on "pulling oil pan off in-car," and I'm sure you would get some feedback.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Surely - say, Danno may be able help... how many times have you had the pan out, Danno [this month]?

Good Luck, Dan! While you're in there, might as well do the rod bearings.