J Silverman

Early cars had much softer springs. The manual says my M030 springs are 140#.

What is the tire rubbing? The strut/spring or bodywork?

Potomac-Greg

Get your sway bar links and bushings checked out. If the bushings go floppy, you could end up with a car that leans radically.

rmconner80

What I was trying to say, although unsuccessfully, is:

New Torsion Bar Installation + Indexing New Torsion Bars

should be roughly equal to

New Rear Coilovers + ReIndexing Existing Torsion Bars

... in terms of amount of work.

In other words, both scenarios assume you must index the torsion bars to get the correct ride height.

In my (admittedly limited) travels, I have read that when installing rear coilovers you usually need to reindex torsion bars also, or you have a pretty good rake with a high rear ride height. My point was if you gotta do it anyway, might as well just do a little extra work to get the simplest setup and lightest unsprung weight (i.e. using new higher spring rate torsion bars, or better yet hollow torsion bars).

In your case, it sounds like you got the ride height you wanted without reindexing. That's a major coup and in your case it makes total sense to NOT have to reindex anything, if you get the ride height you wanted. So, if you can get coilovers to work without reindexing, that is a great choice.

MAGK944

You can fit rear coilovers with or without the torsion bars.

If you fit them with the torsion bars still installed they act as a sort of 'helper' spring and in most cases you will need to reindex your torsion bars to obtain the correct overall height/balance/geometry. Doing it this way losses you a lot of benefits of coilovers such as quick height adjustment, corner balancing and spring rate changes.

If you remove the torsion bars and go for a coilover only set-up then don't have to worry about reindexing anything and you can adjust everything to your liking very quickly.

Unsprung weight is also better with a coilover only set-up. Compare the weight of the torsion bars with coil spring and you will see a big difference.

M

rmconner80

I didn't know you could go with rear coilovers and no t-bars. Good stuff here - thanks.

kinematics

Before you remove your torsion bars you might want to have an idea of the direction you want to take your car. Many race classes require the torsion bars to remain connected. If you are just DE, then no worries. If you were to removing the TB and get the car all set up for competition, then later find out you have to re-install the TB, you would waste some serious time and money.

I am slowly building a Super Cup car and there are quite a bunch of things to consider when installing a new suspension. I am a hell of a long ways from having it all figured out. I read, read, read, listen, listen , listen, procrastinate, then stop and procrastinate again. Karl at Racer's Edge has proven invaluable as have the guys on these forums. I still havent turned a wrench on the suspension but after a month of talking to various people I have finally started to assemble the parts I need. Now, if I could just assemble the money I need I'd have it made.

MAGK944

+1^ I am at the same stage, have raced in the UK but the rules are different here and it's a learning process. I think rear coilovers are not permitted in PCA B&C (stock/prepared classes) but are ok in 944Cup/Supercup. I could be wrong - it's all so confusing.

J Silverman

Im pretty sure that PCA allows rear coilovers as long as you maintain the torsion bars. I think the logic is that there was a 944 CS model that had helper springs (similar to a 968 M030) in the back so you can legally update to those specs. If you want to race in PCA and 944 cup, you can run a cup car in the SP1/2/3 classes with PCA. SP1 is 944 spec, SP2 is 944 cup and SP3 is 944 Super Cup. My car for example will be legal to run in 944 Cup, SP2(its legal for SP1 until I replace the shocks), and SCCA ITS. I like the idea of having multiple venues to play but youre right the rules can get a bit confusing.

JerryW

SP1 (944Spec) you have to keep the torsion bars and they can be a max of 30mm effective. Limits you to about 400lbs front if you want to match.
I run 350# front with 30mm rear torsion bars.

chrisc

As I understand it the Koni rear coilovers are legal in PCA B but the torsion bars must remain. Mine is a (street legal) SP1 car but I wish I went straight to a "B" build as there aren't many, if any, SP1 cars in my area at the events. My car is at the shop right now for a new rear sway and upgrade to the coilovers.

JerryW

You may be right on what is allowed in B but SP1 isn't B. If you don't have any 944Spec (SP1) cars to race against then I understand wanting to go to something that gives you some competition.

chrisc

Agreed, that was my point. Seems like most are SP2/SP3 or PCA B, no SP1 cars around here.

J Silverman

My car is SP1 legal at the moment. I guess Ill have to come down to RA and keep you company in SP2 then.

J Silverman

Koni yellows will handle 400# springs. Im running the SP1 suspension at them moment (400# springs, 30mm TBs) and its a decent compromise suspension.

Potomac-Greg

J:

Is the cage done?

PS: So my t-bar + coilover setup is legal somewhere? Cool!