Which 944 should I buy?
06-12-2008, 04:29 AM
#18
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I don't know if you're seriously miffed or not, but I have to agree with the idea that if you're meaning to own an old sports car designed for spirited driving, it should have a manual transmission. I don't think there's anything derogatory or pejorative about the advice to seek a manual over an auto, nor is there an "anti-automatic" sentiment which directs scorn against owners of automatics. Put it this way, can you advise this new buyer to actually consider an automatic over a manual, all other things remaining equal? Probably not.
06-12-2008, 04:49 AM
#19
Three Wheelin'
What part of the body is better looking?
I assume that's a reference to the non-flush windshield and fender mounted antenna on the early cars.
Assuming the mileage is verifiable, take a long hard look at the 83. I've owned on both sides of the mileage extreme and I can tell you that a true low mileage car (provided it's been taken care of) is a real joy to have. Of course, all of this is out the window if the thing was parked for 10 years out in the sun with the windows down... but you'll be able to make that judgement call. There are exceptions to this rule - i.e. ultra-low mileage examples with neglected mx, etc, but if it's true mileage, then that 83 is right in the sweet spot. One general benefit of low mileage cars is that they have typically had fewer owners as well - but this is not a hard and fast rule. Obviously your 85.5 contender is an original owner car - so that's going to make the mx search for that one pretty darn easy.
The 5 digit odo comments are spot on. If there isn't a 1 or 2 owner chain, then you'll have to carfax it and start to put together pieces - i.e. if the car was reported in for an emissions check in 1991 and had 44k... then you know something is up. Crosscheck it with mileage recorded on mx records and you can get a good snapshot.
As I mentioned, if the mileage is verified and the PPI checks out, it would be hard for me to look away from the early car - but if you run into issues or if the 85.5 is in really stellar shape, then start to really factor in the options on each car and decide what you want to have.
Some of the early cars had fantastic options. You mentioned the 83 had alloys... do you mean fuchs? If the mileage checked, factory fitted fuchs themselves would come close to sealing the deal for me - but I'm weird like that. If they are factory fuchs, then car most likely has some other desireable options. From what I can tell, this is because dealerships didn't generally order Fuchs for their lot cars - they were a usually a box-check item from a buyer who knew what they wanted. Chances are, if they were smart enough to pick the fuchs, then they also went after a few other cool things (LSD, sport seats, etc). Pay attention to the details like having an original radio, original speakers, things like that. There are a lot of hack jobs out there and it's very telling to see a neon folding face stereo and gigantic speakers in a 140 something HP sports car from the 80s. If one of the cars has an automatic, don't buy it. Sorry if that offends anyone, but it's a P-car, and unless you have a disability, then there's really no excuse if you have the choice between the two. Likewise, when/if it comes time to sell you'll find that out the hard way as well.
Bottom line, IMHO - if the mileage is verifiable on the early car AND it has a manual rack w/similar options to the later car, go with it. The late interior is nice, but it only really comes into play if you're using the car as a daily driver (much better vents/circulation, improved speaker setup, better ergo, etc). If you are really, really commited to the late interior, then do yourself a favor and at least drive the early car before you make a snap judgement. On a side note, the early cars also have an unsual (and fun) tach arrangement. You'll understand what I'm talking about when you see it
. My first Porsche was a manual rack, factory sport suspension 83 w/LSD... and I miss it something fierce. My old 85.5 was a much nicer car all around - but there was always something about that little platinum 83
Finally, don't forget that there are a lot of these cars out there. The good ones are getting more and more difficult to find, but even now I know of 2 or 3 really nice cars on the market for less than $10k. Don't make a hasty judgement call or get roped into buying one just because it's there. And above all - make sure you have a budget for repairs. It's hard to enjoy the car when it's causing you financial hardship or with every curve you're worried about whether or not you can afford the next repair.
GL & post pictures!
Micah
I assume that's a reference to the non-flush windshield and fender mounted antenna on the early cars.
Assuming the mileage is verifiable, take a long hard look at the 83. I've owned on both sides of the mileage extreme and I can tell you that a true low mileage car (provided it's been taken care of) is a real joy to have. Of course, all of this is out the window if the thing was parked for 10 years out in the sun with the windows down... but you'll be able to make that judgement call. There are exceptions to this rule - i.e. ultra-low mileage examples with neglected mx, etc, but if it's true mileage, then that 83 is right in the sweet spot. One general benefit of low mileage cars is that they have typically had fewer owners as well - but this is not a hard and fast rule. Obviously your 85.5 contender is an original owner car - so that's going to make the mx search for that one pretty darn easy.
The 5 digit odo comments are spot on. If there isn't a 1 or 2 owner chain, then you'll have to carfax it and start to put together pieces - i.e. if the car was reported in for an emissions check in 1991 and had 44k... then you know something is up. Crosscheck it with mileage recorded on mx records and you can get a good snapshot.
As I mentioned, if the mileage is verified and the PPI checks out, it would be hard for me to look away from the early car - but if you run into issues or if the 85.5 is in really stellar shape, then start to really factor in the options on each car and decide what you want to have.
Some of the early cars had fantastic options. You mentioned the 83 had alloys... do you mean fuchs? If the mileage checked, factory fitted fuchs themselves would come close to sealing the deal for me - but I'm weird like that. If they are factory fuchs, then car most likely has some other desireable options. From what I can tell, this is because dealerships didn't generally order Fuchs for their lot cars - they were a usually a box-check item from a buyer who knew what they wanted. Chances are, if they were smart enough to pick the fuchs, then they also went after a few other cool things (LSD, sport seats, etc). Pay attention to the details like having an original radio, original speakers, things like that. There are a lot of hack jobs out there and it's very telling to see a neon folding face stereo and gigantic speakers in a 140 something HP sports car from the 80s. If one of the cars has an automatic, don't buy it. Sorry if that offends anyone, but it's a P-car, and unless you have a disability, then there's really no excuse if you have the choice between the two. Likewise, when/if it comes time to sell you'll find that out the hard way as well.
Bottom line, IMHO - if the mileage is verifiable on the early car AND it has a manual rack w/similar options to the later car, go with it. The late interior is nice, but it only really comes into play if you're using the car as a daily driver (much better vents/circulation, improved speaker setup, better ergo, etc). If you are really, really commited to the late interior, then do yourself a favor and at least drive the early car before you make a snap judgement. On a side note, the early cars also have an unsual (and fun) tach arrangement. You'll understand what I'm talking about when you see it
. My first Porsche was a manual rack, factory sport suspension 83 w/LSD... and I miss it something fierce. My old 85.5 was a much nicer car all around - but there was always something about that little platinum 83 Finally, don't forget that there are a lot of these cars out there. The good ones are getting more and more difficult to find, but even now I know of 2 or 3 really nice cars on the market for less than $10k. Don't make a hasty judgement call or get roped into buying one just because it's there. And above all - make sure you have a budget for repairs. It's hard to enjoy the car when it's causing you financial hardship or with every curve you're worried about whether or not you can afford the next repair.
GL & post pictures!
Micah
Last edited by Micah; 06-12-2008 at 05:09 AM.
06-12-2008, 05:21 AM
#20
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How you will drive your car? Daily, track ... ?
If you want more power in the future buy turbo.
If you do not want to buy turbo but want to track the car early option should be better because steel a arms.
If you want more power in the future buy turbo.
If you do not want to buy turbo but want to track the car early option should be better because steel a arms.
06-12-2008, 05:35 AM
#21
Race Car
The early cars also come with forged rods where the late cars are all cast other than the turbo. There weren't that many 83s made compared to the rest of the years and its the reason I had mine for the last 6 years in my yard just to keep it around. Mine had the fuchs but no LSD. I am going to get it off another car and make it an early LSD car eventually.
06-12-2008, 02:59 PM
#22
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more info
Thanks to all who have responded. I appreciate the advice.
Both cars have manual transmissions. I won't buy an automatic, not because there is anything wrong with them I just don't want one.
The 85.5 has the phone dial wheels, and the 83 has the cookie cutter wheels.
I've yet to get in contact with the owners of the 83, but i have more info on the 85.
It had the motor mounts and water pump replaced about 25k ago. He upgraded to the water pump from a turbo for better cooling. About 3k ago the timing belts were changed, but he isn't sure if the balance belts were replaced also at this time. Also about 3k ago a new clutch master cylinder was installed. Owner says the mechanic said the pressure plate had another 30k miles left in it, so he didn't replace it.
The 85 also has tan leather and the upgraded sport suspension from the factory.
I intend to use this as a daily driver, and frankly, I'll probably be pretty nice to it most of the time. I doubt it will see track time, and if it does, it will only be for fun. I drive an '85 MR2 now and love it, but it's got 170k on it and is getting pretty rough around the edges... I think my Dad is going to get it since his darn Volvo keeps dying.
I'm going to go look at the 85 Saturday. I'll yet ya'll know what I find.
Again, thanks all for the help!
Both cars have manual transmissions. I won't buy an automatic, not because there is anything wrong with them
I just don't want one.The 85.5 has the phone dial wheels, and the 83 has the cookie cutter wheels.
I've yet to get in contact with the owners of the 83, but i have more info on the 85.
It had the motor mounts and water pump replaced about 25k ago. He upgraded to the water pump from a turbo for better cooling. About 3k ago the timing belts were changed, but he isn't sure if the balance belts were replaced also at this time. Also about 3k ago a new clutch master cylinder was installed. Owner says the mechanic said the pressure plate had another 30k miles left in it, so he didn't replace it.
The 85 also has tan leather and the upgraded sport suspension from the factory.
I intend to use this as a daily driver, and frankly, I'll probably be pretty nice to it most of the time. I doubt it will see track time, and if it does, it will only be for fun. I drive an '85 MR2 now and love it, but it's got 170k on it and is getting pretty rough around the edges... I think my Dad is going to get it since his darn Volvo keeps dying.
I'm going to go look at the 85 Saturday. I'll yet ya'll know what I find.
Again, thanks all for the help!
06-12-2008, 03:07 PM
#23
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06-12-2008, 10:06 PM
#24
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The 85 MR2 is a mid engined car and handles completely different than a 944. I owned one in the past and have chased them down on the track (supercharged one) with my 944 n/a. They are fun cars but are more in the league of a miata than a 944. I think for a daily driver, the 85.5 944 is better since everything is updated and also you are going to put a good amount of miles on it as a DD.
06-12-2008, 11:48 PM
#25
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what is the upgraded sport suspension from teh factory? google porsche option decoder and print it out. look here on rennlist for the FAQ and read it about six times before you look at the car.
the upgraded water pump means nothing. i dont think you can buy the old style.
the phone dials and cookie cutters are the base wheel.
he may have a rear sway bar and is calling that the upgraded suspension. my brother had an 84 with the sport suspension which was bilsteins all around. that was schweeeet.
the upgraded water pump means nothing. i dont think you can buy the old style.
the phone dials and cookie cutters are the base wheel.
he may have a rear sway bar and is calling that the upgraded suspension. my brother had an 84 with the sport suspension which was bilsteins all around. that was schweeeet.