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06-02-2003, 03:55 PM
#17
Nice site.
The bar look a lot like the design Jay Hajny has been selling for the past few years. Looks like a very nice design:
<a href="http://www.homestead.com/redlinerennsport/SafeguardPage.html" target="_blank">http://www.homestead.com/redlinerennsport/SafeguardPage.html</a>
I think a bunch of the folks on the e-mail list have his bar.
The bar look a lot like the design Jay Hajny has been selling for the past few years. Looks like a very nice design:
<a href="http://www.homestead.com/redlinerennsport/SafeguardPage.html" target="_blank">http://www.homestead.com/redlinerennsport/SafeguardPage.html</a>
I think a bunch of the folks on the e-mail list have his bar.
06-02-2003, 04:08 PM
#18
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I made a FE mount for the same place - behind the passenger seat! I moved it further back so it does not limit the seat travel. You can see it in the rennlist gallery below my sig line.
Nice web site and great ideas though!
Nice web site and great ideas though!
06-02-2003, 04:09 PM
#19
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Nice bar. Now all you need is a set of seats with slots for the harness. Otherwise you might slide out of them in an impact.
Alan C.
Alan C.
06-02-2003, 04:16 PM
#20
Drifting
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Alan C.:
<strong>Nice bar. Now all you need is a set of seats with slots for the harness. Otherwise you might slide out of them in an impact.
Alan C.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yeah I've had several people tell me that. But those Sparco harnesses have the H strap on the back that pretty much keeps them from separating so they fit pretty tight and I don't see how they could slide very far, and especially not off.
The only way to really do harnesses right is to get racing seats but I like my stock seats too much to change them for the couple DEs I do a year. When I start getting really fast I may think about changing to some seats with harness loops for the events...
<strong>Nice bar. Now all you need is a set of seats with slots for the harness. Otherwise you might slide out of them in an impact.
Alan C.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yeah I've had several people tell me that. But those Sparco harnesses have the H strap on the back that pretty much keeps them from separating so they fit pretty tight and I don't see how they could slide very far, and especially not off.
The only way to really do harnesses right is to get racing seats but I like my stock seats too much to change them for the couple DEs I do a year. When I start getting really fast I may think about changing to some seats with harness loops for the events...
06-02-2003, 04:24 PM
#21
Nordschleife Master
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Manning:
<strong>Nice site.
The bar look a lot like the design Jay Hajny has been selling for the past few years. Looks like a very nice design:
<a href="http://www.homestead.com/redlinerennsport/SafeguardPage.html" target="_blank">http://www.homestead.com/redlinerennsport/SafeguardPage.html</a>
I think a bunch of the folks on the e-mail list have his bar.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I agree, thats the bar that I have.
I think Dave's offers a bit more structural support but I dont have it in front of me to look at like I do the Redline Safeguard Rollbar.
The Redline bar sits about 1.5-2" back from the A-pillar or thereabouts...
<strong>Nice site.
The bar look a lot like the design Jay Hajny has been selling for the past few years. Looks like a very nice design:
<a href="http://www.homestead.com/redlinerennsport/SafeguardPage.html" target="_blank">http://www.homestead.com/redlinerennsport/SafeguardPage.html</a>
I think a bunch of the folks on the e-mail list have his bar.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I agree, thats the bar that I have.
I think Dave's offers a bit more structural support but I dont have it in front of me to look at like I do the Redline Safeguard Rollbar.
The Redline bar sits about 1.5-2" back from the A-pillar or thereabouts...
06-02-2003, 05:17 PM
#22
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by adrial:
<strong>I agree, thats the bar that I have.
I think Dave's offers a bit more structural support but I dont have it in front of me to look at like I do the Redline Safeguard Rollbar.
The Redline bar sits about 1.5-2" back from the A-pillar or thereabouts...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I think the big difference is what Dave has pointed out before, where the lower mounting points on the red bar are different then Daves. If you look at it close up (as I have) and in the top picture, you'll see the pressure is spread over a large area, stead of one point. Less PSI, less likely the thing will go through the floor on a roll.
<strong>I agree, thats the bar that I have.
I think Dave's offers a bit more structural support but I dont have it in front of me to look at like I do the Redline Safeguard Rollbar.
The Redline bar sits about 1.5-2" back from the A-pillar or thereabouts...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I think the big difference is what Dave has pointed out before, where the lower mounting points on the red bar are different then Daves. If you look at it close up (as I have) and in the top picture, you'll see the pressure is spread over a large area, stead of one point. Less PSI, less likely the thing will go through the floor on a roll.
06-02-2003, 05:30 PM
#23
Still looks to mount the same way, as Jay's bar mounts to the outer belt mount and upper shoulder harness mount on the B pillar. I do like what appears to be some amount of triangulation on Dave's bar, but I would be careful about marketing the thing since Jay has a patent pending on the way his bar mounts.
06-02-2003, 06:07 PM
#24
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Manning:
<strong>Still looks to mount the same way, as Jay's bar mounts to the outer belt mount and upper shoulder harness mount on the B pillar. I do like what appears to be some amount of triangulation on Dave's bar, but I would be careful about marketing the thing since Jay has a patent pending on the way his bar mounts.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">The triangulation that we designed it with is what basically makes a diagonal brace somewhat useless to have on this one. Nevertheless they won't let you club race witohut one so I can put it in if necessary.
As far as a patent on how it mounts...There's only so many spots you can safely mount a device like this...It's not like I copied his design at all. There are significant differences in the bar design as you can see. There's not much choice as to mounting locations in the car...how could I avoid it without drilling holes or something? My bar also doesn't touch the C pillar at all. It's like saying Pepsi can't come in an aluminum can because Coke does..
Whats cool is this one also contours to the B pillar and uses 2 bends on the main hoop to do so, which also made it a PITA to make, but it fits in there so well I think it was worth the effort and looks like it could be factory if the back seat wasn't there.
I appreciate all the feedback guys! Keep it coming that's why I posted. Also this bar is made with thicker, heavier tubing than they use in NASCAR roll cages! The chassis of the car will give long before this bar does
<strong>Still looks to mount the same way, as Jay's bar mounts to the outer belt mount and upper shoulder harness mount on the B pillar. I do like what appears to be some amount of triangulation on Dave's bar, but I would be careful about marketing the thing since Jay has a patent pending on the way his bar mounts.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">The triangulation that we designed it with is what basically makes a diagonal brace somewhat useless to have on this one. Nevertheless they won't let you club race witohut one so I can put it in if necessary.
As far as a patent on how it mounts...There's only so many spots you can safely mount a device like this...It's not like I copied his design at all. There are significant differences in the bar design as you can see. There's not much choice as to mounting locations in the car...how could I avoid it without drilling holes or something? My bar also doesn't touch the C pillar at all. It's like saying Pepsi can't come in an aluminum can because Coke does..
Whats cool is this one also contours to the B pillar and uses 2 bends on the main hoop to do so, which also made it a PITA to make, but it fits in there so well I think it was worth the effort and looks like it could be factory if the back seat wasn't there.
I appreciate all the feedback guys! Keep it coming that's why I posted. Also this bar is made with thicker, heavier tubing than they use in NASCAR roll cages! The chassis of the car will give long before this bar does
06-02-2003, 06:31 PM
#25
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I noticed the patent pending. How long has it been pending? I'm just curious, because I can apply for a patent for a dog leash if I wanted, to, and it would be pending... but odds are it wouldn't go through.
I think to attempt to patent a roll cage doesn't really make any sense...? Or is he patenting the way it mounts??
In my experiences with the USPTO, that's not necessarily something you can receive a patent for.
<a href="http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/design/index.html#def" target="_blank">http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/design/index.html#def</a>
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Clearly a design that simulates a well-known or naturally occurring object or person is not original as required by the statute. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Unless there is specifically something extraordinary about the mounting of the Red roll bar, or it's design (simple structural design??), I don't see that patent going through.
Just my thoughts.
I think to attempt to patent a roll cage doesn't really make any sense...? Or is he patenting the way it mounts??
In my experiences with the USPTO, that's not necessarily something you can receive a patent for.
<a href="http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/design/index.html#def" target="_blank">http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/design/index.html#def</a>
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Clearly a design that simulates a well-known or naturally occurring object or person is not original as required by the statute. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Unless there is specifically something extraordinary about the mounting of the Red roll bar, or it's design (simple structural design??), I don't see that patent going through.
Just my thoughts.
06-02-2003, 09:36 PM
#27
Yeah, I'm not 100% sure if it will go through or maybe has already and he just hasn't updated the site. I believe he is trying to patent the way it mounts though, which until now was unique.
That said, I think probably the fact that Dave's mounts to the B pillar and Jay's to the C pillar (versus B like I originally stated) that should be different enough to prevent infringement. I can't really say whether Jay would but a nut over it or not anyway.
That said, I think probably the fact that Dave's mounts to the B pillar and Jay's to the C pillar (versus B like I originally stated) that should be different enough to prevent infringement. I can't really say whether Jay would but a nut over it or not anyway.
06-02-2003, 09:52 PM
#28
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The more I'm looking at that other bar the more differences I'm seeing.
1) The main hoop on his is just round, mine is contoured to the bend in the B pillar so it looks trick
2) Mine doesn't touch the C Pillar
3) My harness guide bar isn't straight across like that, it bends around a little so the seat has more travel space
4) The vertical supports are a lot different and not at the same angles mine are that are triangulated.
5) I don't know how his looks at the mounting points on the rear seat bolts, so I don't know if that's similar or not.
6) If his doesn't mount to the B pillar? I can't tell.
With all this I can't imagine being in violation of anything he might have patented on his bar. Unless he has a patent on using bolts to mount the thing in which case every bolt-in rollbar company would be in violation. I'm just not seeing where the problem is...
1) The main hoop on his is just round, mine is contoured to the bend in the B pillar so it looks trick
2) Mine doesn't touch the C Pillar
3) My harness guide bar isn't straight across like that, it bends around a little so the seat has more travel space
4) The vertical supports are a lot different and not at the same angles mine are that are triangulated.
5) I don't know how his looks at the mounting points on the rear seat bolts, so I don't know if that's similar or not.
6) If his doesn't mount to the B pillar? I can't tell.
With all this I can't imagine being in violation of anything he might have patented on his bar. Unless he has a patent on using bolts to mount the thing in which case every bolt-in rollbar company would be in violation. I'm just not seeing where the problem is...
06-02-2003, 10:07 PM
#29
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Just to settle this...
These are the only current patents relating to the Porsche 944:
<a href="http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=porsche+944&FIELD1=&co1=AND&TERM2=&FIELD2=& d=ptxt" target="_blank">http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=porsche+944&FIELD1=&co1=AND&TERM2=&FIELD2=& d=ptxt</a>
And there are NO patents pending for the Porsche 944.
Dave, bend away.
-Matt
These are the only current patents relating to the Porsche 944:
<a href="http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=porsche+944&FIELD1=&co1=AND&TERM2=&FIELD2=& d=ptxt" target="_blank">http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=0&f=S&l=50&TERM1=porsche+944&FIELD1=&co1=AND&TERM2=&FIELD2=& d=ptxt</a>
And there are NO patents pending for the Porsche 944.
Dave, bend away.
-Matt
06-03-2003, 02:08 AM
#30
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Well I fixed a couple things on the site..I know a couple links don't work because I haven't made those sections yet. Thanks for all the feedback guys!