Steering: exchangeability tierods between manual and power steering
03-21-2008, 10:53 AM
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Steering: exchangeability tierods between manual and power steering
We got a 2nd hand manual rack to replace our power steering rack, which in the past 10 years has sprung numerous leaks, so to hell with PS!
To speak in WSM terms: I noticed that our power rack has tierod type A: the tierod screws into the balljoint (on the wheel-side of the rod).
The manual rack has tierod type B (dimension 'X' is a bit over 350mm): the balljoint screws into the tierod. In other words: the screwing goes in the opposite direction.
On the side of the rack there are differences too, but as far as I can see these are limited to the female part of the joint which screws on-/into the rack and is not actually a part of the tierod itself.
My plan is to swap the tierods but I'm not sure about the balljoint on the rack-side of the rod. I will have to take the tierods from the PS rack, remove the female part of the rack-side balljoint and stick the tierod into the female part of the rack-side balljoint on the manual rack. Are these joints interchangeable?
Otherwise we'll be spendin dough on 2 more wheel-side balljoints
To speak in WSM terms: I noticed that our power rack has tierod type A: the tierod screws into the balljoint (on the wheel-side of the rod).
The manual rack has tierod type B (dimension 'X' is a bit over 350mm): the balljoint screws into the tierod. In other words: the screwing goes in the opposite direction.
On the side of the rack there are differences too, but as far as I can see these are limited to the female part of the joint which screws on-/into the rack and is not actually a part of the tierod itself.
My plan is to swap the tierods but I'm not sure about the balljoint on the rack-side of the rod. I will have to take the tierods from the PS rack, remove the female part of the rack-side balljoint and stick the tierod into the female part of the rack-side balljoint on the manual rack. Are these joints interchangeable?
Otherwise we'll be spendin dough on 2 more wheel-side balljoints
03-21-2008, 01:54 PM
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ive always wondered why you cant just take the inner and outer tie rods off your power rack and just put them on a manual rack...
is the thread different or something? I know the way the inner and outer rods screw together is different from power and manual... but what about the way the tie rod actually attaches to the rack?
is the thread different or something? I know the way the inner and outer rods screw together is different from power and manual... but what about the way the tie rod actually attaches to the rack?
03-21-2008, 02:08 PM
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ive always wondered why you cant just take the inner and outer tie rods off your power rack and just put them on a manual rack...
is the thread different or something? I know the way the inner and outer rods screw together is different from power and manual... but what about the way the tie rod actually attaches to the rack?
is the thread different or something? I know the way the inner and outer rods screw together is different from power and manual... but what about the way the tie rod actually attaches to the rack?
03-21-2008, 02:17 PM
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SS: our car is an 86. I don't know what year the manual rack is, but judging by the updated tierods the rack is slightly newer. And going on the information given in the WSM, it's no later than MY 86. We exchanged for a rebuilt rack once so I'm guessing we got an older PS rack back which explains why we have the old tierods.
So in summary: our car MY 86, PS rack presumably pre 86, manual rack: 86.
Cass: that's exactly my question: both tierods attach to the rack via ball joints. You slide a 'cup' which is part of the female part of the joint over the tierod which then screws on to the rack, locking the ball (the male part) in between the rack (or perhaps an insert with a spherical shape for the joint) and the cup mentioned previously.
What throws me off is that the cups seem identical but there's some junk behind them (locknuts, washers, someo odd parts) that's different. I'll see if I can get some pictures tomorrow.
My guess is they are, but I would prefer some confirmation before I pull apart 2 properly adjusted racks.
So in summary: our car MY 86, PS rack presumably pre 86, manual rack: 86.
Cass: that's exactly my question: both tierods attach to the rack via ball joints. You slide a 'cup' which is part of the female part of the joint over the tierod which then screws on to the rack, locking the ball (the male part) in between the rack (or perhaps an insert with a spherical shape for the joint) and the cup mentioned previously.
What throws me off is that the cups seem identical but there's some junk behind them (locknuts, washers, someo odd parts) that's different. I'll see if I can get some pictures tomorrow.
My guess is they are, but I would prefer some confirmation before I pull apart 2 properly adjusted racks.
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03-21-2008, 04:33 PM
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Uhh, I can confirm that I can not bolt it on, because once again:
On the wheel side of the tierods our PS rack has a MALE connection, and on the manual rack we have a FEMALE connection. I assure you: tierod swapping is required, if possible. Otherwise I'll have to get new balljoints.
On the wheel side of the tierods our PS rack has a MALE connection, and on the manual rack we have a FEMALE connection. I assure you: tierod swapping is required, if possible. Otherwise I'll have to get new balljoints.
03-21-2008, 04:35 PM
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Take a look at this thread from earlier this week: https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-944-951-968-forum/418049-late-manual-tie-rods-power-to-manual-steering-solution.html
03-21-2008, 05:03 PM
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i know the way the ball joint attaches to the inner rod is different (male/female). but im wondering about the way the rod attaches to the rack itself.
like... I have an 86 (early offset). so if i buy JUST the rack with no tierods at all(inner or outer). would it be possible to just swap the rods/balljoints from my PS rack onto the manual rack?
anyone have a picture of this?
like... I have an 86 (early offset). so if i buy JUST the rack with no tierods at all(inner or outer). would it be possible to just swap the rods/balljoints from my PS rack onto the manual rack?
anyone have a picture of this?
03-21-2008, 05:09 PM
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ok upon doing some research i found that the inner rod/rack connection is the same story as the rod/balljoint situation
the connection on the PS rack is female, so the inner tie rod screws INTO to main shaft that runs through the rack.
the connection on the Manual rack is male, to the main shaft through the rack screws INTO the tie rod.
**i found this info by looking at the tie rods on 944online.com
the connection on the PS rack is female, so the inner tie rod screws INTO to main shaft that runs through the rack.
the connection on the Manual rack is male, to the main shaft through the rack screws INTO the tie rod.
**i found this info by looking at the tie rods on 944online.com
03-21-2008, 05:16 PM
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Interesting thread wipeout, but with an 86 I think I have the early offset, 944 LT-1's solution would probably make my tierods too long.
Note that he used the SHORT version of the tierods (in the WSM type A or B) on a late offset 944, yielding the space he needed for his solution (sandwiching two nuts in there adds 15-20 mm's, which I don't have).
Note that he used the SHORT version of the tierods (in the WSM type A or B) on a late offset 944, yielding the space he needed for his solution (sandwiching two nuts in there adds 15-20 mm's, which I don't have).
03-21-2008, 05:28 PM
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yeah but the only reason he did the thing with the stud is because getting manual inner rods for a late offset car costs a LOT more than the ones for an early offset car.
his solution is really just how to use the cheaper manual rods on a late offset car.
so yeah if your car is an 86 then you wouldn't have to worry about buying the mega expensive inner rods. either way you wills till need the (still pretty expensive) early offset manual rods.
his solution is really just how to use the cheaper manual rods on a late offset car.
so yeah if your car is an 86 then you wouldn't have to worry about buying the mega expensive inner rods. either way you wills till need the (still pretty expensive) early offset manual rods.
03-21-2008, 06:18 PM
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ok upon doing some research i found that the inner rod/rack connection is the same story as the rod/balljoint situation
the connection on the PS rack is female, so the inner tie rod screws INTO to main shaft that runs through the rack.
the connection on the Manual rack is male, to the main shaft through the rack screws INTO the tie rod.
**i found this info by looking at the tie rods on 944online.com
the connection on the PS rack is female, so the inner tie rod screws INTO to main shaft that runs through the rack.
the connection on the Manual rack is male, to the main shaft through the rack screws INTO the tie rod.
**i found this info by looking at the tie rods on 944online.com