Clutch problems - 944NA and Turbo
11-02-2007, 10:26 PM
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Clutch problems - 944NA and Turbo
I've had a bit of a search through and can't seem to find what I'm after - let's see if anyone can help - Both my 944s are experiencing clutch problems!
Problem 1. 1985 (early) 944 NA.
Left car parked for a few days, came back, clutch goes to floor, doesn't spring back. From memory there was a bit of a puddle of fluid under the car and RACV tech (equivalent of your AAA) thought it was the clutch slave. Bought a new slave, went to replace, tested clutch beforehand, no obvious leaks at the slave after it was filled back up with fluid. (is this because it needs lots more pumping to work it through the system if there has been a failure?). Now not sure if it's the slave or master or what's going on with no obvious leaks. Is there a differential diagnostic test I can do to figure out which is the problem?
I'm a little 'Forrest Gump' with working on the car, still learning so any help in clear terms would be awesome.
Problem 2. 1986 951
Just yesterday driving into work the clutch starts making a clunking noise on depressing it (seems to be just as I begin to depress it it makes a clunk like it's catching on something). Clutch appears to be working fine, but this noise (seems to be along the pedal line itself) is a bit disconcerting and I'm guessing it's a sign of something that I am not going to like. You harbingers of doom out there are welcome to tell me what's going on and whether it might be related to global warming.
Thanks for any and all help.
Problem 1. 1985 (early) 944 NA.
Left car parked for a few days, came back, clutch goes to floor, doesn't spring back. From memory there was a bit of a puddle of fluid under the car and RACV tech (equivalent of your AAA) thought it was the clutch slave. Bought a new slave, went to replace, tested clutch beforehand, no obvious leaks at the slave after it was filled back up with fluid. (is this because it needs lots more pumping to work it through the system if there has been a failure?). Now not sure if it's the slave or master or what's going on with no obvious leaks. Is there a differential diagnostic test I can do to figure out which is the problem?
I'm a little 'Forrest Gump' with working on the car, still learning so any help in clear terms would be awesome.
Problem 2. 1986 951
Just yesterday driving into work the clutch starts making a clunking noise on depressing it (seems to be just as I begin to depress it it makes a clunk like it's catching on something). Clutch appears to be working fine, but this noise (seems to be along the pedal line itself) is a bit disconcerting and I'm guessing it's a sign of something that I am not going to like. You harbingers of doom out there are welcome to tell me what's going on and whether it might be related to global warming.
Thanks for any and all help.
11-02-2007, 10:56 PM
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Crackie, Mate;
Nope, you're not going to like it. The pedal hitting the floor and staying there is almost always a failed slave cylinder. They rarely leak externally, though. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever heard of a leak. The master will leak, but into the footwell.
The slave is truly a bugger to bleed out as well. You need to bench bleed them before installation, and then bleed them with the clutch depressed when they are in, just like brakes. It sometimes takes a lot of work to get all the air out.
The clunk is NOT a good sign. It could be lots of things, but none of them are good. It sounds like to me you need a THOROUGH rebuild. That includes the clutch kit, guide tube, fork bearings, pivot shaft, and pilot bearing.
Do it all. Do it once. Do it RIGHT. End of story.
Nope, you're not going to like it. The pedal hitting the floor and staying there is almost always a failed slave cylinder. They rarely leak externally, though. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever heard of a leak. The master will leak, but into the footwell.
The slave is truly a bugger to bleed out as well. You need to bench bleed them before installation, and then bleed them with the clutch depressed when they are in, just like brakes. It sometimes takes a lot of work to get all the air out.
The clunk is NOT a good sign. It could be lots of things, but none of them are good. It sounds like to me you need a THOROUGH rebuild. That includes the clutch kit, guide tube, fork bearings, pivot shaft, and pilot bearing.
Do it all. Do it once. Do it RIGHT. End of story.
11-03-2007, 01:08 AM
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The mechanism is really simple. If the peddle went to the floor its because you got air. If you pumped it to de-clutch then you got air. If you bled it and still got the above then replace both slave and master.
11-03-2007, 04:41 AM
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Update:
944 NA: appears to be the clutch slave. Replaced with new clutch slave, bled system out, works now. So for those who have a clutch pedal that goes to the floor and stays there, could be your clutch slave (this can happen while you're not driving the car) - don't necessarily look for leaks around the slave even if you refill the reservoir and pump fluid through).
Tips if you have to do a clutch slave replacement
- have a drip tray and some rags handy - and hand cleaner for when you get back to your computer. haha
- you'll have to take the starter motor out, but unlike what it says in the haynes manual, you won't have to take the exhaust system off.
- the starter is lodged in with two bolts only, but the connecting wires to it(2 of them) also keep it tethered. try and take the wires off FIRST, otherwise you'll be left holding the starter in one hand and be trying frantically to grab a little 10mm or whatever spanner in the other hand!
- you may have to give the starter some 'manual encouragement' laterally to get it out.
- have a range of spanners handy - you'll need a 7, 10, 12 and 13 I believe at different times.
- someone else about to help you is a great idea (you're gonna need them when bleeding anyway)
- always take the battery out first
- when re-assembling, do not re-connect the big wires before you put the starter in - you might get away with the little wires being slipped back on, but try and fit the starter into its slot first.
Help in diagnosing just what the likely culprite is of the 951's clunk / click sort of sound at the start of depressing the clutch (with normal clutch operation and no issues with engagement) still welcome - interested in knowing what the problem is - but appreciate the suggestions to replace the whole lot. (will probably do so now I can drive the NA again.
Oh - while you're reading - anyone ever re-fibreglassed / repaired a rear euro slatted valance?
944 NA: appears to be the clutch slave. Replaced with new clutch slave, bled system out, works now. So for those who have a clutch pedal that goes to the floor and stays there, could be your clutch slave (this can happen while you're not driving the car) - don't necessarily look for leaks around the slave even if you refill the reservoir and pump fluid through).
Tips if you have to do a clutch slave replacement
- have a drip tray and some rags handy - and hand cleaner for when you get back to your computer. haha
- you'll have to take the starter motor out, but unlike what it says in the haynes manual, you won't have to take the exhaust system off.
- the starter is lodged in with two bolts only, but the connecting wires to it(2 of them) also keep it tethered. try and take the wires off FIRST, otherwise you'll be left holding the starter in one hand and be trying frantically to grab a little 10mm or whatever spanner in the other hand!
- you may have to give the starter some 'manual encouragement' laterally to get it out.
- have a range of spanners handy - you'll need a 7, 10, 12 and 13 I believe at different times.
- someone else about to help you is a great idea (you're gonna need them when bleeding anyway)
- always take the battery out first
- when re-assembling, do not re-connect the big wires before you put the starter in - you might get away with the little wires being slipped back on, but try and fit the starter into its slot first.
Help in diagnosing just what the likely culprite is of the 951's clunk / click sort of sound at the start of depressing the clutch (with normal clutch operation and no issues with engagement) still welcome - interested in knowing what the problem is - but appreciate the suggestions to replace the whole lot. (will probably do so now I can drive the NA again.
Oh - while you're reading - anyone ever re-fibreglassed / repaired a rear euro slatted valance?
11-04-2007, 05:36 PM
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Replaced one of the lines, yep, but seems likely it was the slave. Problem #1 solved. Problem number 2 seems more to be to do with the clutch pedal assembly I think - seems to click just as you push the clutch in, and it feels a little like you can feel it through the brake pedal - like the two are impinging each other and clanking physically as the clutch pedal is pushed - it's only just as you beging to put any pressure on the pedal - doesn't seem to be the clutch itself - but then I'm no expert. Feels a bit like a stapler if you know what I mean?
