s*** happens
03-26-2007, 06:04 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
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s*** happens
got in my car today after class and saw a note on the windshield, a lady was backing out and put a nice dent in my fender. she was nice enough to leave a number, so i think im gonna take the money and fix it myself. i can just replace the driver front fender straight up, and then respray the whole car. the paint is so bad that a resprayed fender would look horrible.
so anyone have any advice on respraying a car..prep work and where to get paint?
so anyone have any advice on respraying a car..prep work and where to get paint?
03-26-2007, 07:18 PM
#3
consider yourself lucky
I've been unfortunate enough to be on both sides of this issue. Each time I hit someone (two separate times before age 20) I went inside the place and found the victim.
The one time when someone hit me they left the scene without so much as a note. Be sympathetic with her. She feels bad enough already but she's obviously a good person.
It's funny - in both cases where I notified the victim that I'd dented their car they never bothered to call me back.
The one time when someone hit me they left the scene without so much as a note. Be sympathetic with her. She feels bad enough already but she's obviously a good person.
It's funny - in both cases where I notified the victim that I'd dented their car they never bothered to call me back.
03-26-2007, 07:53 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
You are lucky. Imagine getting a note saying, i hit your car and onlookers think i'm leaving my number but darn, **** happens.
03-26-2007, 07:59 PM
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jim 7 - that actually happened to someone whom I helped get help
I was parallel parking in a spot on the street, when some guy in a broke-*** moving truck asked me to pull out for 5 minutes so they could unload a couch...
Low and behold he mangles the Honda Accord behind him, ripping off the front bumper, headlight, and part of the radiator.
I said he'd better leave a note, and took down his information without him knowing, and when I went to check the note it was a blank piece of paper... So I left my own note giving the details he decided not to share.
Not that it did me any good in the world of karma, because my beater 98 ford windstar has been hit TWICE with no note, both times by moving vans.
I was parallel parking in a spot on the street, when some guy in a broke-*** moving truck asked me to pull out for 5 minutes so they could unload a couch...
Low and behold he mangles the Honda Accord behind him, ripping off the front bumper, headlight, and part of the radiator.
I said he'd better leave a note, and took down his information without him knowing, and when I went to check the note it was a blank piece of paper... So I left my own note giving the details he decided not to share.
Not that it did me any good in the world of karma, because my beater 98 ford windstar has been hit TWICE with no note, both times by moving vans.
03-26-2007, 08:26 PM
#6
A full respray is not as easy as just shooting. If its the factory coat thats on it now, that will be a good substrate for a refinish. The cost of Nason (Dupont) 2 part urethane is just under 400 which includes epoxy primer, surfacer, base coat, and clear coat. If you want a better color match, you want Chromabase (Dupont) which is over double that of Nason. But since you are doing a full respray, Nason will be superior over any other paint you find as far as availability, price, and color match. Napa is the palce to find these systems.
The biggest money eater is the compressor or turbine and guns. You'll need a compressor that can handle 10-14 psi to the gun at ALL times. So its gonna be a big compressor. For example, if you had a 20 gallon compressor, it would be running constantly and you would run outta air alot. Remember, you cant run outta air or stop during a coat of base or clear.
I use a 3 stage turbine setup especially made for painting only. You can check those out at AmericanTurbine. It would also be good to find a gun for primer (different nozzle and needle setup) and a BC/CC gun. These are highly expensive. But some can be found for reasonable amounts especially the primer guns found at Harbor Freight etc.
The gist.....Disasemble the car completely! Widows, hatch, trim, door handles, mirrors, decals and emblems. As much as you can get off the car! Take off the wheels and foglights as well. For a complete respray, you will need to scuff the entire car with at least 220 grit with a RANDOM Orbital sander. This will give you mechanical bond for the primer.
For masking, give the car an apron to the ground and if possible, ground the car and create a booth of plastic sheating. This will attract dust particles off the car and to the walls of the booth. In fact, youll notice the dust on the booth walls as soon as you finish hanging them up.
Your space also has to be well heated. Capable to 80 degrees. If not you will not to tell your supplier of the conditions so he/she can ready you with reducers.
Then, you will shoot the primer coats which should see 3 coats or until the surface is level and fine. Some people will go ahead and shoot a sealer right over the factory scuffed finish. The sealer is important so that the BC doesnt seep into the primer giving you a dull finish.
After primer, you should shoot a guide coat which is a coat of off color primer that is misted onto the surface. When you lightly sand this, it will show you highs and lows which will require more attention to make nice and level. After all primer coats are finished, you need to sand with 500 grit (wet) and spray your sealer. You dont sand the sealer at all. Then you shoot your tack coat which is your first coat of base coat. You will let this tack up for 10 minutes at 73 degrees and shoot the next coat. Repeat until full coverage. You will again NOT sand the base coatings. Infact, you will let it flash for 30 minutes and start your clear coats. If you sand the base coat, you will get delamination of the clear coat withing 2-5 years (theres lots of contreversy over this but just dont). By not letting it cure, the chemicals of base and clear will bond giving you mechanical and chemical bonding. If you went with lacquer, you would wet sand in between each coat but you would also do 25-28 coats!!! You will need 4 coats of clear.
After you let the clear dry for 4-8 hours, remove masking. After 48 hours at 77 degrees, you should start your color sanding or wet sanding. I use a waterbug which is a random orbital sander that has water readily moving through it at all times. But a sponge and 1000 to 1500 to 2000 will work fine too. Check out the waterbug at Hutchins Sanders or type Waterbug in Ebay. Theres also the Airvantage on ebay but is costly and I have heard no reviews yet on it. But they should cut your wetsanding down from 2 days to a few hours. Yay. Use alittle detergent in your water to aid in lubrication of the paper. Lubrication on sandpaper sounds stupid but it helps dramatically.
After wetsanding, you need to buff the entire car. Mask off the edges of the car with masking tape to prevent burn through. I use Wizards compund to buff out to ridiculous shines. But alot of people use 3M's perfect it II systems. Its nice but VERY expensive. It has 3 parts. Use a quality variable speed buffer. And keep the RPM low. Youll burn through before you know it with a simple mistake of movement!!!
After buffing comes the polishing. Use Meguires for this and a terricloth pad at low speed. you should see the letters of a dollar bill in the finish after this step.
Theres alot and i mean ALOT more to this than what I typed. The best way to find out more is to sign up at paintucation or hot rod forums to get a better idea of what youre in for. Other things to consider is booths, filters, cleaners, buffers and compunds, polishings and polishers, clear coat sags/base coat sags and their remedies, etc.....The cost from start to finish with no tools and materials is upwards 1500 to 3000 dollars and thats if youre quite frugle and are very good at finding good deals on used equipment and such.
However, Its a great feeling to refinish a car. And, the tools and materials you acquire can be used again and again or sold back to others in your situation.
The biggest money eater is the compressor or turbine and guns. You'll need a compressor that can handle 10-14 psi to the gun at ALL times. So its gonna be a big compressor. For example, if you had a 20 gallon compressor, it would be running constantly and you would run outta air alot. Remember, you cant run outta air or stop during a coat of base or clear.
I use a 3 stage turbine setup especially made for painting only. You can check those out at AmericanTurbine. It would also be good to find a gun for primer (different nozzle and needle setup) and a BC/CC gun. These are highly expensive. But some can be found for reasonable amounts especially the primer guns found at Harbor Freight etc.
The gist.....Disasemble the car completely! Widows, hatch, trim, door handles, mirrors, decals and emblems. As much as you can get off the car! Take off the wheels and foglights as well. For a complete respray, you will need to scuff the entire car with at least 220 grit with a RANDOM Orbital sander. This will give you mechanical bond for the primer.
For masking, give the car an apron to the ground and if possible, ground the car and create a booth of plastic sheating. This will attract dust particles off the car and to the walls of the booth. In fact, youll notice the dust on the booth walls as soon as you finish hanging them up.
Your space also has to be well heated. Capable to 80 degrees. If not you will not to tell your supplier of the conditions so he/she can ready you with reducers.
Then, you will shoot the primer coats which should see 3 coats or until the surface is level and fine. Some people will go ahead and shoot a sealer right over the factory scuffed finish. The sealer is important so that the BC doesnt seep into the primer giving you a dull finish.
After primer, you should shoot a guide coat which is a coat of off color primer that is misted onto the surface. When you lightly sand this, it will show you highs and lows which will require more attention to make nice and level. After all primer coats are finished, you need to sand with 500 grit (wet) and spray your sealer. You dont sand the sealer at all. Then you shoot your tack coat which is your first coat of base coat. You will let this tack up for 10 minutes at 73 degrees and shoot the next coat. Repeat until full coverage. You will again NOT sand the base coatings. Infact, you will let it flash for 30 minutes and start your clear coats. If you sand the base coat, you will get delamination of the clear coat withing 2-5 years (theres lots of contreversy over this but just dont). By not letting it cure, the chemicals of base and clear will bond giving you mechanical and chemical bonding. If you went with lacquer, you would wet sand in between each coat but you would also do 25-28 coats!!! You will need 4 coats of clear.
After you let the clear dry for 4-8 hours, remove masking. After 48 hours at 77 degrees, you should start your color sanding or wet sanding. I use a waterbug which is a random orbital sander that has water readily moving through it at all times. But a sponge and 1000 to 1500 to 2000 will work fine too. Check out the waterbug at Hutchins Sanders or type Waterbug in Ebay. Theres also the Airvantage on ebay but is costly and I have heard no reviews yet on it. But they should cut your wetsanding down from 2 days to a few hours. Yay. Use alittle detergent in your water to aid in lubrication of the paper. Lubrication on sandpaper sounds stupid but it helps dramatically.
After wetsanding, you need to buff the entire car. Mask off the edges of the car with masking tape to prevent burn through. I use Wizards compund to buff out to ridiculous shines. But alot of people use 3M's perfect it II systems. Its nice but VERY expensive. It has 3 parts. Use a quality variable speed buffer. And keep the RPM low. Youll burn through before you know it with a simple mistake of movement!!!
After buffing comes the polishing. Use Meguires for this and a terricloth pad at low speed. you should see the letters of a dollar bill in the finish after this step.
Theres alot and i mean ALOT more to this than what I typed. The best way to find out more is to sign up at paintucation or hot rod forums to get a better idea of what youre in for. Other things to consider is booths, filters, cleaners, buffers and compunds, polishings and polishers, clear coat sags/base coat sags and their remedies, etc.....The cost from start to finish with no tools and materials is upwards 1500 to 3000 dollars and thats if youre quite frugle and are very good at finding good deals on used equipment and such.
However, Its a great feeling to refinish a car. And, the tools and materials you acquire can be used again and again or sold back to others in your situation.
03-26-2007, 09:26 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
LT-1 is right. Also want to degrease thoroughly. You could also block sand the car after the random orbit sander in an x pattern, as the orbital snader leads to uneven surfaces. This will allow you to skip the leveling primer/sanding step and use an all in one epoxy primer, one that's anti-rust and works as both the primer and sealer.
Most importantly, have something to practice on. Ask the paint shop for some improperly mixed paint. Buy some economy reducer to thin the practice paint/clean the gun with and practice on a scrap piece of metal. Adjust the gun to spray about 4-6 inch band on most pieces. Primer and base are sprayed very dry. Clear is sprayed wet, even add a bit more reducer than the mix says and it will orange peel less.
Most importantly, have something to practice on. Ask the paint shop for some improperly mixed paint. Buy some economy reducer to thin the practice paint/clean the gun with and practice on a scrap piece of metal. Adjust the gun to spray about 4-6 inch band on most pieces. Primer and base are sprayed very dry. Clear is sprayed wet, even add a bit more reducer than the mix says and it will orange peel less.
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03-26-2007, 09:28 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Also get a filter, especially if you don't have a gigantic compressor. The paint is hydrophobic and will bubble inward with mini dents when sprayed if water gets in the mix.
03-26-2007, 11:36 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
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well..that is alot to swallow
im pretty optomistic though, it will be alot of work, but its something ive been wanting to learn, so i think ill be able to work it through, thank you very much for the advice...since im not looking for a concours finish, i can go a bit easier on myself, but when its time to paint ill be sure to take all that into account, and i do have some crappy old 914 body parts to practice painting on (i knew those would come in handy)
anyone have a drivers fender?
im pretty optomistic though, it will be alot of work, but its something ive been wanting to learn, so i think ill be able to work it through, thank you very much for the advice...since im not looking for a concours finish, i can go a bit easier on myself, but when its time to paint ill be sure to take all that into account, and i do have some crappy old 914 body parts to practice painting on (i knew those would come in handy)
anyone have a drivers fender?
