Mobil 1 is NOT pure synthetic anymore...
11-15-2006, 07:26 AM
#17
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What is the best viscosity for a turbo? I have been using mobile 1 5w-50 because I like that it makes the turbos whine and spin up faster. The 10w-XX grades are a little thicker. Any thoughts?
11-15-2006, 09:06 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
Well, theres about 3 different kinds of mobil 1 now, are they all based on that grade III oil? theres regular mobil 1, mobil one 3000 and the mobil one 5000 super stuff
11-15-2006, 11:17 AM
#19
Three Wheelin'
I've heard that only 0W-30 Castrol Syntec is a true synthetic. Can anyone confirm this? It's the only one that states on the bottle that it meets Porsche/BMW/Benz/VW standards.
Tom
'87 951
Tom
'87 951
11-15-2006, 03:51 PM
#20
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Thread Starter
yield2 and others - Here's my understanding of trodding thru all the information on that site.
1. Mobil 1 still makes a PURE synthetic, but it's about $10 a quart and is labeled as V-Twin 20w-50 Motorcycle oil. It says on the bottle "100% pure synthetic".
2. I'm deriving that unless it says 100% pure synthetic, then it isn't!
3. The marketing weenies over at Exxon/Mobil have come up with a new word, SynTec. It's the new formula that's in the oil. Nowhere does it claim to be 100% synthetic anymore.
KEEP AN EYE ON THIS THREAD, as I'll be updating as I get more info from the other site...
1. Mobil 1 still makes a PURE synthetic, but it's about $10 a quart and is labeled as V-Twin 20w-50 Motorcycle oil. It says on the bottle "100% pure synthetic".
2. I'm deriving that unless it says 100% pure synthetic, then it isn't!
3. The marketing weenies over at Exxon/Mobil have come up with a new word, SynTec. It's the new formula that's in the oil. Nowhere does it claim to be 100% synthetic anymore.
KEEP AN EYE ON THIS THREAD, as I'll be updating as I get more info from the other site...
11-15-2006, 04:00 PM
#21
[QUOTE=951Tom]I've heard that only 0W-30 Castrol Syntec is a true synthetic. Can anyone confirm this? It's the only one that states on the bottle that it meets Porsche/BMW/Benz/VW standards.
Well all I can say is that EVERY Porsche that leaves the factory has Mobil 1 0W-40 in it.
Weather it's a marketing agreement or is acutally the best product I don't know but Porsche will never deny an engine claim based on using Mobil 1 so that's what goes in my Porsches.
Well all I can say is that EVERY Porsche that leaves the factory has Mobil 1 0W-40 in it.
Weather it's a marketing agreement or is acutally the best product I don't know but Porsche will never deny an engine claim based on using Mobil 1 so that's what goes in my Porsches.
11-15-2006, 05:26 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Update: Here's the description of Group III and IV:
Group III
Hydroprocessing and Refining Group III base oils are subjected to the highest level of mineral oil refining of the base oil groups. Although they are not chemically engineered, they offer good performance in a wide range of attributes as well as good molecular uniformity and stability. They are commonly mixed with additives and marketed as synthetic or semi-synthetic products. Group III base oil products have become more common in America during the past decade.
Group IV
Chemical Reactions Group IV base oils are chemically engineered synthetic base stocks. Polyalphaolefins (PAOs) are a common example of a synthetic base stock. Synthetics, when combined with additives, offer excellent performance over a wide range of lubricating properties. They have very stable chemical compositions and highly uniform molecular chains. Group IV base oils are becoming more common in synthetic and synthetic-blend products for automotive and industrial applications.
STAY TUNED...
Group III
Hydroprocessing and Refining Group III base oils are subjected to the highest level of mineral oil refining of the base oil groups. Although they are not chemically engineered, they offer good performance in a wide range of attributes as well as good molecular uniformity and stability. They are commonly mixed with additives and marketed as synthetic or semi-synthetic products. Group III base oil products have become more common in America during the past decade.
Group IV
Chemical Reactions Group IV base oils are chemically engineered synthetic base stocks. Polyalphaolefins (PAOs) are a common example of a synthetic base stock. Synthetics, when combined with additives, offer excellent performance over a wide range of lubricating properties. They have very stable chemical compositions and highly uniform molecular chains. Group IV base oils are becoming more common in synthetic and synthetic-blend products for automotive and industrial applications.
STAY TUNED...
11-15-2006, 07:34 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Syntec 0w30 is a group IV/Ester mix from what I hear...It does not meet Porsche specs...It has an HTHS lower than 3.5...Syntec 5w40 does meet Porsche specs however and is a good oil, although a Group III base. Group III oils can give excellent results and one shouldn't get hung up on PAO vs. Group III or IV...the proof is in a Used Oil Analysis....check out Blackstone Labs....They have been doing mine for quite awhile...That is the only way to tell if an oil is doing it's job...The rest is all conjecture.
11-15-2006, 10:52 PM
#25
Unbannable
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^ Ditto.
I have 9 quarts of recently-purchased 15w50 (I like to stock up because they seem to sell it seasonally around here) and they all say "fully synthetic".
That said, I'll be paying attention in the future...
BB.
I have 9 quarts of recently-purchased 15w50 (I like to stock up because they seem to sell it seasonally around here) and they all say "fully synthetic".
That said, I'll be paying attention in the future...
BB.
11-16-2006, 12:01 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
My understanding is that "fully synthetic" and 100% pure synthetic" are two different things - at least that's what they say over on http://www.bobistheoilguy.com!
11-16-2006, 12:10 AM
#27
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Thats just marketing talk. Who knows what it actually means....
What really matters here is whether or not the addative package is still holding up. Who cares if its fully synthetic or not. If the addatives are doing there job up to 8,000+ miles it really doesn't matter.
What really matters here is whether or not the addative package is still holding up. Who cares if its fully synthetic or not. If the addatives are doing there job up to 8,000+ miles it really doesn't matter.
11-16-2006, 02:42 AM
#28
Burning Brakes
I've been using Valvoline Racing 15w50 since I did my last major overhaul/upgrades. I can't complain, though I imagine if you actually drive your car in the winter weather this would not be a optimal choice. For me since my car basically stays garaged the entire winter I could careless.
11-16-2006, 11:58 AM
#29
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I've been lurking around on here for a long time now, and this is the topic that's finally encouraged me to start posting again.
1. Although this web forum has been a great resource during my engine rebuild project, I think it is important for us all to remember that on every forum, no matter what the people posting say or who they claim to be, what we read needs to be taken with a grain of salt. You have no way of knowing what agenda the people posting have, or what economic interests they may have in talking down a certain product or service.
If you Google "engine oil" you get led to a lot of official looking websites and web forum posts advertising Amsoil. It really bothers me hwo Amsoil has a very clever marketing scheme - talk crap about every other product and use their own, official-looking testing methods to make their stuff look great. Amsoil is not approved by Porsche for use as engine oil, and though it may well be a great product meeting OEM specifications is an important consideration.
2. The only way to really know something is to go out and get the data yourself. Whether it's building an engine or judging the quality of an oil, the only thing you should really pay attention to is the experience and data that you gather yourself. Data speaks louder than words, friends. I second bgiere's recommendation to get your used oil analyzed...that's the only way to see how it is performing in your engine.
3. The amount of misinformation and half-truths being espoused about Mobil 1 is really staggering. There is absolutely no reason to get hung up on Group III vs. Group IV base stock debates, or the semantics of "full" or "pure" synthetics.
All oil gets it's start, in some way, from refining the stuff coming out of the ground. All refining is chemical engineering, no matter what anyone says. Group III stocks are heavily refined to remove impurities and then further hydrocracked down to uniform chain length. Group IV stocks are PAO stocks made from petroleum gas captured during the refining process. There is no reason to believe that Group IV's are inherently more stable than Group III's - the only thing that matters is the chain length, chain distribution, and additive/stabilizer package in the final formulation. If ExxonMobil or BP or anyone else figures out a way to get the necessary stability, chain length, and chain distribution from a hydrocracked stock good for them! They've used engineering and chemistry to make a superior product for less money....that's the best way to stay in business for the long haul.
Let's also not forget that API does classify Group III stocks as synthetic, and that whatever it came from, the end product will have to meet the specifications of the manufacturer and every OEM that uses the product as factory fill. This includes Porsche and GM, two companies who have extremely rigorous supplier certification and material quality standards.
4. On that same note, Mobil 1 is the ONLY PRODUCT that Porsche uses as factory fill and recommends for every engine they've ever made, including the older air-cooled (actually oil-cooled) models that are very hard on their oil. If you don't think Porsche has incredibly high standards for the oil they require you are delusional. Mobil 1 also meets the very strict 502.00 and 505.01 oil quality standards of Volkswagen/Audi. The fact is, it's a good product and meets some of the most rigorous quality standards in the world. I will keep using it in both my Porsche and my VW until either manufacturer tells me otherwise.
These forums are a great resource and have definitely got me thinking about stuff that I've never before considered. But like I said previously, the internet doesn't care what you write on it or who's writing it. Get your oil analyzed, gather your own data, and make your own conclusions. Don't let someone on some forum (including me) convince you of what's best for your application!
1. Although this web forum has been a great resource during my engine rebuild project, I think it is important for us all to remember that on every forum, no matter what the people posting say or who they claim to be, what we read needs to be taken with a grain of salt. You have no way of knowing what agenda the people posting have, or what economic interests they may have in talking down a certain product or service.
If you Google "engine oil" you get led to a lot of official looking websites and web forum posts advertising Amsoil. It really bothers me hwo Amsoil has a very clever marketing scheme - talk crap about every other product and use their own, official-looking testing methods to make their stuff look great. Amsoil is not approved by Porsche for use as engine oil, and though it may well be a great product meeting OEM specifications is an important consideration.
2. The only way to really know something is to go out and get the data yourself. Whether it's building an engine or judging the quality of an oil, the only thing you should really pay attention to is the experience and data that you gather yourself. Data speaks louder than words, friends. I second bgiere's recommendation to get your used oil analyzed...that's the only way to see how it is performing in your engine.
3. The amount of misinformation and half-truths being espoused about Mobil 1 is really staggering. There is absolutely no reason to get hung up on Group III vs. Group IV base stock debates, or the semantics of "full" or "pure" synthetics.
All oil gets it's start, in some way, from refining the stuff coming out of the ground. All refining is chemical engineering, no matter what anyone says. Group III stocks are heavily refined to remove impurities and then further hydrocracked down to uniform chain length. Group IV stocks are PAO stocks made from petroleum gas captured during the refining process. There is no reason to believe that Group IV's are inherently more stable than Group III's - the only thing that matters is the chain length, chain distribution, and additive/stabilizer package in the final formulation. If ExxonMobil or BP or anyone else figures out a way to get the necessary stability, chain length, and chain distribution from a hydrocracked stock good for them! They've used engineering and chemistry to make a superior product for less money....that's the best way to stay in business for the long haul.
Let's also not forget that API does classify Group III stocks as synthetic, and that whatever it came from, the end product will have to meet the specifications of the manufacturer and every OEM that uses the product as factory fill. This includes Porsche and GM, two companies who have extremely rigorous supplier certification and material quality standards.
4. On that same note, Mobil 1 is the ONLY PRODUCT that Porsche uses as factory fill and recommends for every engine they've ever made, including the older air-cooled (actually oil-cooled) models that are very hard on their oil. If you don't think Porsche has incredibly high standards for the oil they require you are delusional. Mobil 1 also meets the very strict 502.00 and 505.01 oil quality standards of Volkswagen/Audi. The fact is, it's a good product and meets some of the most rigorous quality standards in the world. I will keep using it in both my Porsche and my VW until either manufacturer tells me otherwise.
These forums are a great resource and have definitely got me thinking about stuff that I've never before considered. But like I said previously, the internet doesn't care what you write on it or who's writing it. Get your oil analyzed, gather your own data, and make your own conclusions. Don't let someone on some forum (including me) convince you of what's best for your application!
Last edited by ljibis; 11-16-2006 at 12:56 PM.
11-16-2006, 11:59 AM
#30
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I care about whether it's pure synthetic or not 
Here's a list of some pure synthetics:
Redline
Royal Purple
Motul
GC (german castrol)
Amsoil's premium line
I was looking at the Amsoil products and I can get their European special synthetic blend for $6 a quart. That's about $3 a quart cheaper than the Mobil 1 EP 15w-50 I've been buying.
Here's a list of some pure synthetics:
Redline
Royal Purple
Motul
GC (german castrol)
Amsoil's premium line
I was looking at the Amsoil products and I can get their European special synthetic blend for $6 a quart. That's about $3 a quart cheaper than the Mobil 1 EP 15w-50 I've been buying.