I just want to get some opinions on this from others, usually everyone brings up some great points i miss.

I am sitting here thinking of the fate of my '87. I love the car to death..but the lack of power is just killing me. I used to be able to auto-x it and be alright with it (the lack of power) but latley its really starting to get to me. I am at the crossroad of what to start to look for. Do i buy a 968 engine and swap it into the '87 or should i just go the route of the 944 Turbo? Id like to start looking now for the parts needed to perform the 968 swap as if i did go this route i would probably make this next spring / summer's project. I have a line on a number of parts such as a 951 radiator, S2 flywheel, oil cooler..etc. Another reason i am considering this now is my current car is going to need a clutch probably by next summer..so id rather swap the engine than change the clutch .

The 944 Turbo route im not really worrying about because its easier to find a whole car than it is to piece together what i am going to need for a differenent engine.

There are a couple of points swaying my decision both directions.

Pro 968 Engine
-Would be a great project for the summer
-I have a place to perform the swap..lift, air tools..etc. I would be well equipped.
-No need to let go of a car i am so attached to
-All supporting mods for the extra power, good suspension and 951 brakes already adressed.
-Marginally more reliable than a 944 Turbo once all the quirks of the swap are worked out.
-Ill have something i can really take pride in

Cons of the 968 Engine
-How often does a great project idea turn into a major headache?
-A minimum of $5-6k in and i still end up with a frankenstien of a car
-Parts for a 968 are marginally more expensive (IE Waterpump)
-Rather than the headache of a turbo, i have the headache of the Variocam instead. Repaired camshafts are $650 if they are damaged.. it just seems like another timing belt type issue to live with.

Now there is the 944 Turbo..

Pro 951
-Fast out of the box
-No fussing around with changing an engine
-Great power potential
-Not saying i would do a bad job on the swap, but its not going to be a hackjob of a car

Cons of the 951
-Possible headaches involving a turbo charged car
-Great power potential (what i mean by this me dumping huge money into the go fast parts!)
-Higher intial cost to purchase. My criteria for a 944 Turbo would be '87-89, and MUST have LSD equipped. All of the cars i see in my general area that match that criteria are in the $9000+ range.
-Insurance is a little higher per month. I need to call Geico to find out by how much.
-Not as competitive autocross car

Ideally i would love to be able to keep my 944 and just get a 944 Turbo..but i think i would be crazy to try and maintain two Porsches at my age (21). I have also considered buying something new and financing it. One particular car that i really love is the S2000 with the hardtop. Let me tell you, i LOVE the S2000. But turning the S2000 into a daily driver and keeping the 944 as a track rat / autocross car seems completley backwards. Case in point, i can carry huge amounts of crap around with me in the 944! The S2000 isnt exactly a good Home Depot or college friendly car. There is not much else out right now that i really have a liking for and is still practical as a daily driver. Maybe an STi or a Evo, but id rather not go that route either.

What does everyone think, swap the engine or just get the turbo? As i figure i would be in roughly $5-6k buying a 968 motor and all associated tid bits to get it into my car. That includes clutch, new waterpump, belts, cap and rotor, ignition wires...etc. The 944 Turbo will likely cost me in the area of $9-12k in my area (and when i say my area i mean from the East coast as far as say..Texas).

The last option i guess i didnt really mention is just buying a 968. But again my criteria would be for one with a LSD, which usually seems to only come on the M030 equipped cars..which go for a huge premium it seems.

 

I know this isn't a stated option, but I have an extra 944S motor 80K miles, including manifolds, and dme. If you are interested, pm me.

 

It's hard for me to look back and be able to say whether I would rather have a 951 or my car. I would say if you are attached to your car and want something unique, do the 3.0L swap. If you have the 5 or 6k ready to be spent, and really just want pure power (with potential for grander upgrades in the future), sell your car for 4 or 5 or whatever you can get, and get a nice turbo for 9 or 10k.

Although, I have had people reply, after me telling them I want a 951, by saying, "Why would you want a 951 you have that!!" The immediate power IS pretty cool...

 

Jon,
Next week I should have my 951 on the road. I will try to remember to bring a copy of the ad. it is still on metros classifieds i think.

when you see my car, and see the stack of receipts from rudtners shop, tell me if you want to get your hands dirty or just buy my car from me in a year or two when I get bored and move on to the next money pit.

 

Get a 951.

I think I recall there is a nice one for sale in my sig....

 

why not just buy an s2 or 968?

 

Dan, i thought about the 968 but i cant justify paying a premium for one. The lowest priced 968's seem to go for no less than $9g's which will get me a reasonably nice 944 Turbo. Though it may seem strange, i would rather keep my car and swap the engine than get a proper 968 or S2.

Tom, i will keep your car in mind.. i will hopefully be ready to buy in a year or two if you are looking to sell. This is baring if i decide to ship out again next summer.

The 968 idea is a little easier to pull off earlier on, i guess you can say there is less of an initial startup cost..probably about 1/4 less than buying a 944 Turbo right now. I still have the ad you listed in my PM box. I still need to call Geico to figure out how much more its going to be to insure a 944 Turbo on my policy. I wonder if they will cut me a deal if i keep my 944 also.

 

jon,
look up the ad for my car where i told you it is. the vin is there. go to geico on line and plug it in. viola you get the rate for an 88 951.

 

For track purposes I wanted to stay NA, that's why I went the Franky route (968). However, if you want big power at a reasonable price, then get a 951 and start modding. Getting big power out of the 968 is costly.

 

If you are attached to the car and want to continue doing AutoX, a 968 swap seems like the way to go. The power of a 968 motor mated to the short gearing of 944 tranny is pretty potent at lower speeds. Plus, I hear nothing but complaints of turbo lag from 951 used for AutoX. For street driving, I actually enjoying stopping at a red light in my 968-powered 944 because it's so good from a standing start.

The 944 with 968 motor is also fun for surprising S2000 drivers on the track -- especially because they won't be expecting an 944 to be competitive with them. And the 944 is handy for lugging track tires in the hatch -- something the S2000 drivers can't do as easily. However, I think the track is where the turbo starts to shine above the 3.0l na motor. One good thing for the 3.0L motor is that it seems to be more bulletproof than the turbo motor -- but that just might be my good luck so far with it.

 

I'm personally going the 968 engine route... If I want more power I could build a low-boost (6-7psi) turbo system for it for some more coin if I get bored of the N/A power... Then have a 3.0L 16v turbo I4 w/ VarioCam.

 

968 engine or buy a complete S2, by a mile.

 

I am leaning a bit more towards the 944 Turbo idea. I plan to get into track events next year (DE's), so maybe a 944 Turbo wouldnt be a bad compromise for a DE car, autocrosser and daily driver. Talk about pulling double duties.

I just checked the insurance to add a 944 Turbo to my policy as of right now. It went up by about $200 every 6-months. I then checked the insurance for just a 944 Turbo, dropping my current 944 off the policy. Suprisingly the rate WENT DOWN! I am assuming this is because later 944's had ABS and airbags! It went down by about $30. I defenetley did not see that one coming!

 

josephc, isn't it awesome when 911 guys at the PCA autoXs are doing the tech checks and have no idea WHAT a 944 engine is supposed to look like, then they put you in the 944NA class? Haha. That works until someone (TRAVIS) tells on you... Haha.

 

If you already have the 951 brakes / suspension Darth Coupe just posted a 951 engine for sale for 1,600$... why not do all the prevent maint/ needed upgrades on that 951 engine and swap it into your 944 when able... If you are considering swapping a 968, why not a reasonably priced 951 ?