racer

I think my next Porsche will be an N/A 944. I've seen a few "S"s for sale, and wondered if their price premium / performance was worth it over the 8V na?

As far as I can tell, they are equipped the same as the 8V NA, but for the motor, is this not true? What (if any) perks came standard or optional on the 16V that the 8V didn't have? LSD? M030?

How many S's were produced over the model run? How "rare" are they? Most reports I have seen indicated their performance advantage over the 8V were at high speed/high rpm. Anyone know the Torque values of the two motors?

How much does the 16V 2.5l head cost to replace? How about the 8V?

The intended use for this car is to Autocross, some DE and "weekend" drives/occasional commuting. I am an admitted Porsche junkie (avid a/x, DE, Instructor etc) but want to free up some $$ and still keep a "practical" Porsche in the garage.

Techno Duck

The S was only made in '87 and '88 model years.

A 16v 2.5L head is going to be hard to find in the event you crush valves.

The engine put out about 188hp and 170 ft-lbs or torque, that is alot over the typical 'pre '88 944 which did about 143-147hp and 135-140 ft-lbs.

With the 16v motors you still have all the worries of the typical 8v engine along with the cam chain tensioner which need to be changed within a certain mileage like the belts..

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/cam-04.htm

Personally i dont think the 16v motor is worth the extra hassle unless its of course the S2..which is light years ahead of both the S and regular 944. You really dont feel the extra power of the S unless you really rev the hell out of the motor, that is due to the different gearing, the 944S has the same 1-5 gearing as the 944 Turbo but with a higher final drive ratio.

500

I have an S, I brought it because it was overall a good deal, not specifically because it was an S.

Most people will say that there is not much benefit with an S in most driving conditions, and from what I can see, I would agree. However, if you work it higher up in the rpm range, the car definitely has an edge on the 2 valve NA. Most road tests show this, with small differences in 0 to 60, but larger differentials in the quarter mile etc.

The S tranny has a stronger R&P, other than that, no driveline/suspension differences to the NA. Many may have you believe that the S is much more maintenance intensive than the NA, but that is not true. There is exactly one more item to worry about than an NA and that is the chain tensioner for the chain that connects the two camshafts. Trouble is, many cars have not had this serviced. If the pads break or wear away, the chain will snag and cause all sorts of heartache. The pads are very cheap and easy to replace. For greater piece of mind, you can replace the tensioner and chain, which will be a few hundred dollars in parts. However, take care of that, and you have as solid a ride as any 944.

The S was produced in 87 and 88 and I forget the numbers, but I have it in a book at home. I will post them tomorrow unless someone else does first. The S motor is rated at 188 hp @6000 rpm and 170 lb-ft of torque @4300 rpm. The NA puts out 143 to 156 hp (depending on year) and 137 to 151 lbs-ft @3000 rpm.

The 16V head is much more expensive than the 8V head.

Over all, I would not specifically look for an S or not, but rather be open to either and look for the best 944/944S you can find in your price range.

AZS2

Alot of your production ?'s can be answered here
http://www.connactivity.com/~kgross/FAQ/944faq.html

I don't know if you could get M030 in the S. I don't think it was available until 89 or 90, but I'm not sure. LSD would probably be an option if it was available. If you want to go 16v, I would just step up to the S2, but that depends on your budget I guess. For the added expense of maintaining the 16v, may as well get all the added bonuses. 1989 non-S2 NA's had 2.7l, thats something else to consider....

hacker-pschorr

I purchased my first Porsche in 1996 - an 87 944S (still own it). Since then I've added 2 928's to the garage.

Over the past 10 years I have driven a lot of Porsche's including many stock / heavily modified 944's. One thing is for sure, I would not have been happy with a stock 8V N/A 944. Many "regular" 944 owners are spending tons of money to gain less HP than a stock 16V gives you over a stock 8V. If a turbo is out of your reach money wise - the 16V's are a nice "in-be-tween" model just as Porsche intended.

hacker-pschorr

My 944S came with LSD - ABS - and the 16 inch "Manhole Cover" wheels (all listed on the original window sticker. I then upgraded to 951 brakes (no adaptors, all 951 parts) and 17" 5-spoke wheels.

AZS2

Was the LSD an option or standard? My S2 has LSD, but its an option listed on the sticker in the rear trunk.

The DareDevil

I don't think the S has a stronger ring and pinion. Where did you get that information?

hacker-pschorr

Option - so was the ABS & wheels. I was also lucky enough to buy a car with the extended hub steering wheel (great for tall guys).

Sticker on my 944S with delivery fees was over $42,000

gtroth

I gotta say, above 3800 rpm it's such a blast that you'll do that alot.

Search around, there's alot of "difference in the 'S' " threads.

To begin with, different cat-back, different pressure plate, has automatic idle adjust (no screw), far more difficult to service TPS and ISV...

hacker-pschorr

You lost me there. My mechanic (over 30 years working on European cars) always said my 944S was far easier to diagnose / work on than the "plain Jane" (as he called them) 944's. I never asked why, just remember him always saying that.

Changing spark plugs on a 944S is a lot easier than an 8V.

racer

TPS and ISV? Help me here

Will those differences (cat-back, pressure plate) etc be more expensive or were those elements carried over to the S2.

No turbos for me.. not interested in the complexity or boost in general. Prefer N/A motors.

Where is/are the option code stickers in the 944?

M758

get the 8v car. The S does have a nice increase in hp, but that comes at the added expense of the head. Should something go wrong it will be harder and more expensive to replace.

The added power is nice, but still does not make the car fast in a straight line. Plus with more 8v track cars you will have more guys to run with on track an in the autocross.

BTW virgina is home of 944 cup. 944 cup uses 8v cars in quite sucessfull racing class. They do allow the S in their "super cup" class, but then you run against 3.0L cars and turbos. So it becomes the weakest hp car in the class. Weights are adjusted in an attempt to balance things however.

gtroth

On the 'S', the throttle is located at the back of the engine, so to service the throttle, or the Throttle Position Switch (TPS), you have to pull the intake manifold. You also need to pull the manifold to service the Idle Stabilizer Valve (ISV). This position for the throttle also makes it impossible to service the REF/SPEED sensor (another differnce from the NA, which has a REF sensor and a SPEED sensor), and near impossible to get to a very important ground without pulling the manifold.

Cat-back costs much more for the 'S', pressure plate's probably the same.

In a response to some guy over on Pelican who wanted to put a 16V head on an 8V motor (for some reason) SoCal Driver recently mentioned a comression / timing differnce too:

"Possible to do. But why? You will gain more "breathing" but since you will not have the higher compression 'S' pistons you loose on the other side.

The higher compression is where the hall and knock sensors come into play. They look for the knocking from the advanced timing the 'S' electronics run. This is the other secret that makes the 'S' models perform.

Besides a good 'S' head is worth almost three times your 84.

As has been said repeatedly; you want more performance buy a turbo."

hacker-pschorr

You know what would be funny - start a post on the 928 forum saying that 48hp increase from an 84 to an 85-86 "isn't worth the extra money" and if you want "real power" just buy an S4.

Same argument(s) applies. The 85-86 928's are a bit sought after - even with the "extra complexity" of the 16V head (almost the same unit as the 944S) and "more complex" electronics.