Robby

I'm torn to all hell b/t going w/Bilstein Firehawks OR having my Turbo S Koni's rebuilt & made DBL adj by Paragon- the price on this might settle it for me, as Jason just responded to an e-mail several days ago w/the price listed as $395/ea. A year or so ago, it was ~$350, BUT, I was under the impression that was per PAIR... Haven't heard back from Jason yet (sure he's busy). Does anyone here know about the price...??? Anyway, IF I go this route, I would get the Koni Cup rears- I'll run 275's up front & 28mm T-bars in rear (HOPEFULLY HOLLOW, IF anyone can find them but that looks VERY unlikely...). I will NOT use springs of any kind in the rear.... The Bilsteins will be the Firehawks, OR, the Escorts w/Firehawk valving- Firehawk is slightly softer for ~300lb rate... So, I'd have DBL adj Koni's front & rear OR Bilstein Firehawks. Any opinoins...??? This is for a STREET CAR, so ride quality is MOST important...


Anyway, I REALLY REALLY want to ride in a 951 w/Bilsteins... For that matter, I'd like to ride in one w/new Koni's (DBL adj Turbo S...?)... At this point, I'll take what I can get... I don't mind driving to Atlanta, Nashville, or any equivalent drive from Knoxville... Anyone here w/any input &/or ESPECIALLY w/a similarly equipped car who wouldn't care to take me for a short, relatively quick, street ride, I would REALLY appreciate... I don't really even have to drive the car myself- I just want to see how the shock/spring match feels on the STREET....


thanks a lot...

Manning

Hey Robby,

I can't help with getting you a ride in a 951 with the Bilsteins, but I got a chance to ride around in Dan P's beautiful 951S the other week, and he had recently installed a set of either the Firehawks or the Escorts, I don't recall which, and his car had a downright plush ride. I was shocked at how smooth and comfy it was.

Mike1982

Yea, I actually wish I could have gotten a ride but from behind and in front it stays nice and level with no dip when driving, even over the roads we went on. I really hope he gets the turbo tuned the way he wants.

944Fest (aka Dan P)

Thanks guys. The coilovers in my car are the Bilstein Escort Cups, and they cost in the neighborhood of 1700 for a set of four, with springs. I'm very pleased with the ride, and look forward to trying them out on the track. The install wasn't a snap, re-indexing torsions and a four wheel balancing/alignment made it a bit tricky, but the final result is excellent. FWIW, I have the 350LB springs up front and the 250LBs in the rear. I'm not sure how far I am from Knoxville, but a ride is available to anyone passing through northern Ohio.

Robby

Dan- are these on that awesome Glacier Blue baby of your's? I know that Cincinatti is doable in ~3hrs IIRC... Not really sure about Cleveland from K-town, but will check here later- I've GOT to go to sleep, but wanted to chime in here & ask when Hershey is & also when 944Fest is...? Not sure I can make it to either, but either would be a good way to check out a few cars w/dif set-ups... I'm curious... How do you think the Bils feel in comparison to the Turbo S Koni's you had....? I'm asking more about ride quality & the feel over not-so-perfect pavement....? Did you ever make any adjustments w/the Konis before they were off or did you use stiffer springs w/them or have them rebuilt or anything...? What kind of condition were they in when you pulled them? Did you not consider Paragon's rebuild/DBL-adj conversion & if so, why did you not go that route...? I'm still trying to find out if that runs $395 per shock, OR, if it's per PAIR...??? Anyone? Anyway, to finish my 20-Q's.... IF your Koni's were not the best to compare your new Bils too, then, have you ever ridden in a 951 w/adj Koni's in really good condition & if so, how would you compare them to the Bils...? Again, I'm wondering about their ride quality for an everyday driver around so-so roads... How does your wife feel about the Bils when riding in the car &/or would she even get in the car w/you to go out, etc, &/or did she mind it when it had the Koni's...? I hate driving over imperfect pavement w/girls in my car- everything's fine when smooth, but when I hit little seems, ruts, bumps, pot-holes, etc, I'm hating it & they're wanting to be in another car... that does NOT help me any....


Hmmmmm..... Escorts w/350 fronts... I thought they were valved for a slightly stiffer spring that that, BUT, I do remember Tony G telling me he was running his Escorts w/250's & he said his car felt fine... I still think, based on all the valving conversations I've had about these, that the Firehawks (OR Escort's w/Firehawk valving...) would be better for my 275's...

thanks guys.....

944Fest (aka Dan P)

WOW! SO many Q's! Robby, I promise you I have not put as much thought in to the ride of my Glacier Girl as you put in to writing up that post!!! To summarize, I used to have good Koni's (stock) all around, set to full stiff, with the 968 Mo30 Adj sways. The car still had a lot of body roll on track. I run on Toyos' and Hoosiers in the fastest run groups (instructor, A). Yes, in ANY car with a good sport suspension you will feel all those darn potholes, the question is whether they pound your kidneys and shake the screws loose in the dash. My new setup seems extremely FLAT, and firm yet tolerable on the street.
To answer your q's:

1. Yes
2. Hershey-This coming Sat, I think. 944Fest-Aug 4th and 5th.
3. Just a bit firmer, much less body roll
4. Manning called them "plush" over fairly rough pavement. That might be a tad bit of an overstatement, but for a sport suspension he may be right.
5. I toyed with the adjustable shock part of the Koni a few times, finally I set to full stiff for track use and left them there. My rears have been rebuilt.
6. Rears like new, fronts, no complaints. 69K miles.
7. I read about a few folks who had the Bilstein cups and liked them, so I ordered them. I did not consider any other options.
8. The price you mention is per SHOCK. $1700+ for 4, includes springs.
9. See #3.
10. The wife has not been in the car yet. I'd presume she would object to the 4" exhaust a lot sooner than she'd object to the Bilsteins. No complaints from her with konis.

In summary, I'm very pleased with the ride quality of my setup. You know you are in a race prepped car, so there is no mistaking it for a Lexus, but it is firm enough without having that rock solid feel that hurts as if you are on 600 LB springs.

PS..Mapquest says Knoxville to Cleveland is 8 hrs, 500 miles.

ehall

Hey Robby, I got your pm but am really busy. I'll get back with you. I got mine from eshox.com. They are much cheaper there, if all you need are the struts/shocks and springs, with collars. I love my cups. Much stiffer than most would like, but you said you wanted that. The only problem I have is that they really should be set up with springs to match their rates. That would mean about 600#'s front. At 350, on one certain bridge over the intercoastal waterway (at anything between 55 and 110 mph) my car gets freaking bouncy. That's, I believe, as a result of 350# front springs matched to 638/240 front struts, which is the standard valve level for Escort Cups. Firehawks are 385/160 I believe. I'll get back to you in the next day or two.
E

ps 600# springs would be WAY TOO stiff for the street, considering all of the various conditions.

944Fest (aka Dan P)

I should mention my Cups are the ones with the
380/150 (street/track) valving.

Robby

Thanks both of you... i'll have to digest some of this- VERY upset to know the Koni's were for EACH.... Has that ALWAYS been the case? I mean, two years or so ago, I had been told they were under $400 & I have asked a few times & always refer to pairs... is it possible the price has doubled, or again, have these prices remained consistent?

Yes, I checked Mapquest... That's a bit far... might be worth it for 944fest or something but w.my high miles & horrible gas mileage right now, plus leaking gaskets, etc, I'd probably rent a car before driving mine.... that would sort of suck.... Oh yeah, Hershey would be great, but is even a good bit further than Cleveland- I looked it up a few years ago- no way I could go this weekend, unfortunately...

The ONLY Bils I'm interested in are the Firehawks- or, the Escorts w/Firehawk valving... in other words, the street valving of ~385/160, or whatever it is... I've talked to quite a few people about this & understand them to be valved more for ~300lb springs. my 275's should be fine. Still, Tony G always claimed his Escorts were fine w/his 250's... seems like HE'D need at LEAST 400's, but...

Damn... the suspension on these cars is a complete source of annoyance & opposite opinions, etc... I had wanted Bilsteins at first, since Cervelli always recommended them & saaid to "throw the Koni's in the garbage" & Danno had always recommended Bils over Konis too, etc... Then, I had changed my mind & become DEAD-SET on the Koni's the last few months, partly b/c of the great deal on the DBL adj conversion & rebuild & am now ready to send mine in to be converted. NOW I find out they're $800 instead of $400!!!! I am really upset now...! In addition to this, the Koni Cup rears have gone up at least $100 to $899/pr... This means I'd be at ~$1600 (I'm not going to use helpers at all & already have my front springs). Bils are ~$1100... I'll have to buy new T-bars either way... I REALLY want hollow 28's but can't find them anywhere... anyone know where some are??? I think I'll start posting threads to look for some.... Anyway, I'm starting to lean towards the Bils again...

Oddjob

Did you get confirmation from Koni that the dbl adjustable rebuild/conversion of a set of existing struts is $400 each?

A couple years ago when I looked into it, I recall it was around $100 per strut for standard rebuild, $150 for a stiffer valved single adjustable, and $250 for a double adjustable conversion. I spoke with Jason at Paragon about it last fall and he gave me the Koni rebuild shop contact info, but I didnt get the impression from him that the prices had jumped at that time. Apparently I have procrastinated too long - $400 each is quite an expensive shock rebuild.

kasturbo

True Choice is the shop you'll want to use for Koni rebuilds on the East coast. They quoted me 100 for a strut rebuild. http://www.truechoicekoniracingservices.com/

Manning

Not to take food out of Jason's mouth by any means, but have you checked with TrueChoice in Columbus OH? They are a big time Koni service center and offer all kinds of rebuild and conversion options. May be woth giving them a call.

And to Dan's point, yeah, plush may be a bit of a stretch, but considering the roads we were on it was a very nice ride.

ehall

for the record, the only difference, I mean ONLY difference between the Firehawk front strut and the Escort Cup front strut, is the setting. It is otherwise identical. The rears are a different story ofcourse as the Firehawks are a traditional shock rather than a coil over shock. The rear of the Firehawk set up needs no springs, just t-bars.

As for hollow 28 mm t-bars, Weltmeister makes a set and they aree sold by Paragon.