Please Help! The worst plugs I've ever seen
03-31-2006, 02:55 AM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Please Help! The worst plugs I've ever seen
First off, hello! This is my first Porsche, a 1988 924S.
I changed my oil, air filter and plugs today. After pulling the plugs I was suprised I could even drive the car home.
Can anybody shed some light on what the problem may be? I've done a lot of searching, but it seems like it could be any number of things (based on other threads) from a head gasket to "spark plug seals" which I can't even find for the 924S/944 engine online. I need to get this car smogged ASAP and burning oil will not help me pass
Hey there are in detail:
As you can see, the number 1 and 4 cylinder plugs are covered in oil, including the threads. 2 and 3 aren't much better, but don't seem to be completely covered in oil.
#4 was certainly the worst, with the ENTIRE plug covered, which included the threads, the ignition wire boot and even the valve cover. The paper towel in picture was from the oil on ONLY the #4 plug. Scary huh?
I've started step one in the repair process, drinking heavily.
Thanks for any help you can provide!
Cheers,
Chris
I changed my oil, air filter and plugs today. After pulling the plugs I was suprised I could even drive the car home.
Can anybody shed some light on what the problem may be? I've done a lot of searching, but it seems like it could be any number of things (based on other threads) from a head gasket to "spark plug seals" which I can't even find for the 924S/944 engine online. I need to get this car smogged ASAP and burning oil will not help me pass
Hey there are in detail:
As you can see, the number 1 and 4 cylinder plugs are covered in oil, including the threads. 2 and 3 aren't much better, but don't seem to be completely covered in oil.
#4 was certainly the worst, with the ENTIRE plug covered, which included the threads, the ignition wire boot and even the valve cover. The paper towel in picture was from the oil on ONLY the #4 plug. Scary huh?
I've started step one in the repair process, drinking heavily.
Thanks for any help you can provide!
Cheers,
Chris
03-31-2006, 03:29 AM
#2
Wax On, Wax Off
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Well, first off, a warm weclome to Rennlist from a fellow 924S owner!
Now, tell us a little more about the car. you said it was a 1988 924S... what is the mileage? did it sit for a while? has it had the cylinder head off or rebuilt at all? it seems to me, that either the valve seals are leaking from high mileage/old age, thus filling the cylinders with oil, or, in a less likely scenario, you have dead piston rings. the only way those plugs could be fouled with oil is if it's coming from the cylinder, unless someone thought you filled the engine with it's 7 qts through the spark plug holes. What is your oil consumption like? you said it's a recent purchase, so you may not have had it long enough to know... good luck!
edit: the 8 valve engines don't have spark plug seals, so lets rule those out...
Now, tell us a little more about the car. you said it was a 1988 924S... what is the mileage? did it sit for a while? has it had the cylinder head off or rebuilt at all? it seems to me, that either the valve seals are leaking from high mileage/old age, thus filling the cylinders with oil, or, in a less likely scenario, you have dead piston rings. the only way those plugs could be fouled with oil is if it's coming from the cylinder, unless someone thought you filled the engine with it's 7 qts through the spark plug holes. What is your oil consumption like? you said it's a recent purchase, so you may not have had it long enough to know... good luck!
edit: the 8 valve engines don't have spark plug seals, so lets rule those out...
03-31-2006, 07:51 AM
#5
Three Wheelin'
I would start by checking for oil in the throttle body. If you find a lot of oil, chances are the O-Rings for the oil filler neck are bad. When these O-Rings fail, air flows past the O-Rings, picks up oil vapor from the crankcase, and then carries that oil into the intake plumbing.
Other problems could be worn valve guides and valve stem seals or bad oil control rings on the affected pistons.
However, because of the condition of your plugs bad O-Rings are my prime suspect.
BTW: Once you get the problem diagnosed and fixed, I would recommend replacing the O2 sensor. Burning oil with shorten the sensor's life span and can cause the sensor to become inaccurate.
Other problems could be worn valve guides and valve stem seals or bad oil control rings on the affected pistons.
However, because of the condition of your plugs bad O-Rings are my prime suspect.
BTW: Once you get the problem diagnosed and fixed, I would recommend replacing the O2 sensor. Burning oil with shorten the sensor's life span and can cause the sensor to become inaccurate.
03-31-2006, 08:47 AM
#6
Rennlist Member
could it be the cam housing leaking down into the spark plug holes and when you pulled them out they got covered in oil- not on the inside of the head necessarily? I would see if your cam housing is really leaking cuz that is common.
03-31-2006, 12:54 PM
#7
Race Car
#3 looks like it was loose judging by the soot on the ceramic.
From the quantity of oil on the threads, it looks like somebody did a very messy wet compression test.
From the quantity of oil on the threads, it looks like somebody did a very messy wet compression test.
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03-31-2006, 01:11 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
I'm with XBoost. I think the oil is coming from your cam tower.
The electrodes from 1, 2, and 3 look pretty normal. Number 4 is anther story. Looks like you have a problem in that cylinder. Probably worn valve guides.
____________________________________
1986 944 NA - Guards Red - 87k miles
1983 944 NA - Platinum metallic - awaiting new engine
1985.1 944 NA - Guards Red - donor car
1984 911 Carrera Coupe - Guards Red (gone, but not forgotten)
"If you're not living on the edge, you're not living"
The electrodes from 1, 2, and 3 look pretty normal. Number 4 is anther story. Looks like you have a problem in that cylinder. Probably worn valve guides.
____________________________________
1986 944 NA - Guards Red - 87k miles
1983 944 NA - Platinum metallic - awaiting new engine
1985.1 944 NA - Guards Red - donor car
1984 911 Carrera Coupe - Guards Red (gone, but not forgotten)
"If you're not living on the edge, you're not living"
03-31-2006, 02:28 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Porschephile 924
Well, first off, a warm weclome to Rennlist from a fellow 924S owner!
Now, tell us a little more about the car. you said it was a 1988 924S... what is the mileage? did it sit for a while? has it had the cylinder head off or rebuilt at all? it seems to me, that either the valve seals are leaking from high mileage/old age, thus filling the cylinders with oil, or, in a less likely scenario, you have dead piston rings. the only way those plugs could be fouled with oil is if it's coming from the cylinder, unless someone thought you filled the engine with it's 7 qts through the spark plug holes. What is your oil consumption like? you said it's a recent purchase, so you may not have had it long enough to know... good luck!
edit: the 8 valve engines don't have spark plug seals, so lets rule those out...
Now, tell us a little more about the car. you said it was a 1988 924S... what is the mileage? did it sit for a while? has it had the cylinder head off or rebuilt at all? it seems to me, that either the valve seals are leaking from high mileage/old age, thus filling the cylinders with oil, or, in a less likely scenario, you have dead piston rings. the only way those plugs could be fouled with oil is if it's coming from the cylinder, unless someone thought you filled the engine with it's 7 qts through the spark plug holes. What is your oil consumption like? you said it's a recent purchase, so you may not have had it long enough to know... good luck!
edit: the 8 valve engines don't have spark plug seals, so lets rule those out...
1. The engine has 157k on the clock. The car was donated and I purchased it from the company at an auction (only $1100
)2. When I bought the car, it had about 1-1.5 too many quarts of oil in it. It didn't get driven much in that state by me, but the previous owner may have for some time.
3. I plan on doing a compression test today, once I get a hold of the tool.
4. The #1 plug was only finger tight. The #1 plug is front most plug in the engine right?
5. I've only driven the car (or any Porsche for that matter) for about 20 miles since I've owned it. I'm impressed that it ran fairly well on basically two cylinders (plug 1 being loose and plug 4 being fouled).
Originally Posted by StoogeMoe
I'm with XBoost. I think the oil is coming from your cam tower.
The electrodes from 1, 2, and 3 look pretty normal. Number 4 is anther story. Looks like you have a problem in that cylinder. Probably worn valve guides.
The electrodes from 1, 2, and 3 look pretty normal. Number 4 is anther story. Looks like you have a problem in that cylinder. Probably worn valve guides.
I'll post the compression numbers when I get them and take some pictures of the top end, if I have enough time today to get that far. I'll also check the throttle body as Charlotte944 suggested (I like the idea of seals and not rings, so thanks!
) I also have a new 02 sensor ready to go, but it's going to have to wait obviously. Thanks again for all your responses.
03-31-2006, 02:36 PM
#10
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by xsboost90
could it be the cam housing leaking down into the spark plug holes and when you pulled them out they got covered in oil- not on the inside of the head necessarily? I would see if your cam housing is really leaking cuz that is common.
OH, one other thing I forgot to mention. The oil on the plugs (as you can see in the pictures) is old, very black and a bit sludgy. The oil on the dipstick is still fairly new (which is a good sign, since I just changed the oil).
Does that mean that the head isn't getting adquate fresh oil pumped to it?
03-31-2006, 03:04 PM
#11
Hmm maybe sombody oiled the cylinders before it was stored for auction. But really a compression tests will tell alot and welcom to the list and good choice on a 924S i love mine. There are five - six pretty active 924S owners on the list
03-31-2006, 03:12 PM
#12
Race Car
That is not an indication of a head problem, it is an indication that the oil has been heated many many times, and exposed to the environment for some time as well.
Looks like a badly done wet compression test, they spilled oil around the spark plug holes.
I would clean the area well, replace with new plugs, and run it for some time (i.e. a few hundred miles at least), then re-inspect.
At this point you should easily be able to identify the source of the leak if there is one.
Also, do a compression test if you would like to know more about the condition of your engine.
Looks like a badly done wet compression test, they spilled oil around the spark plug holes.
I would clean the area well, replace with new plugs, and run it for some time (i.e. a few hundred miles at least), then re-inspect.
At this point you should easily be able to identify the source of the leak if there is one.
Also, do a compression test if you would like to know more about the condition of your engine.
03-31-2006, 03:25 PM
#13
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by cjeckert
Hmm maybe sombody oiled the cylinders before it was stored for auction. But really a compression tests will tell alot and welcom to the list and good choice on a 924S i love mine. There are five - six pretty active 924S owners on the list
Originally Posted by Zero10
Looks like a badly done wet compression test, they spilled oil around the spark plug holes.
I would clean the area well, replace with new plugs, and run it for some time (i.e. a few hundred miles at least), then re-inspect.
I would clean the area well, replace with new plugs, and run it for some time (i.e. a few hundred miles at least), then re-inspect.
It's getting torn down and built up in the future anyway..
03-31-2006, 08:45 PM
#15
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Porschephile 924
Genikz, where are you from? You wouldn't happen to be one of MY NASA 944spec guys, would you?