Seal my fate, or go for a turbo?
03-24-2006, 09:26 AM
#16
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Worse comes to worse, if i am still slow. I will blame it on all of the extra unsprung weight from the brakes 
. All of last season i was within 2-3 seconds of the top drivers running good all-season Yokohama's , i switched to some very old Michellin dry rotted all-seasons to take the load off my daily driver wheels...time went up a pretty decent amount. This season i finally said i would get serious and drive smoother, last year i was just out to have fun and get the rear kicked out a bit. The morning runs i remembered to be smooth, but the afternoon was a mess!
One of the fastest cars at MetroNY is actually a 944 Turbo. Ive got no idea what hes got done to the car (it sits about an inch off the groud..), but it is a '89 which runs in modified. He is usually capable of top-10 and i believe is a regional champ, but i cant be certain. Its probably a pipe dream, but hope to be able to get similar results running a turbo...though it would probably take 300hp from a Vitesse stage 2 to get that from my skills right now ....
. All of last season i was within 2-3 seconds of the top drivers running good all-season Yokohama's , i switched to some very old Michellin dry rotted all-seasons to take the load off my daily driver wheels...time went up a pretty decent amount. This season i finally said i would get serious and drive smoother, last year i was just out to have fun and get the rear kicked out a bit. The morning runs i remembered to be smooth, but the afternoon was a mess!One of the fastest cars at MetroNY is actually a 944 Turbo. Ive got no idea what hes got done to the car (it sits about an inch off the groud..), but it is a '89 which runs in modified. He is usually capable of top-10 and i believe is a regional champ, but i cant be certain. Its probably a pipe dream, but hope to be able to get similar results running a turbo...though it would probably take 300hp from a Vitesse stage 2 to get that from my skills right now ...
.
03-24-2006, 10:04 AM
#17
Race Director
Just to make things clear...
As much as I love my 944 Turbo S.... Stay with NA car. You are young and have solid car. Getting a old beat-up 944 Turbo will be alot of work all over again. Stock vs stock the NA is a faster autocross car assuming you don't need 3rd gear. Sure you can modify it, but even then a modded NA is pretty darn quick around the cones. The problem comes from th 2nd gear of the turbo.
Too tall for most autocross work and you spend alot of time around 2500 RPM. This is NOT the turbo's power band and thus you get zero hp. Then you get blast of power from 3000 to 3500 to 4000 then have to get right back on brakes. You could go to first gear, but making the downshift is never easy into first and then you light-up the tires since you have so much hp. The NA car has much less hp, but even with that it takes skill to put all of it down. In my spec car on race tires usally my first run is part throttle. There are so many turns that even with its limited power I simply can apply all it has. Usallay by the end of the day I am using the power, but it is a tough thing. Now one way you can boost the effective power of the NA is to use shorter tires. This in an autocross setting means you are at more RPM for every ground speed. Thus you can be in a better part of the power curve. Down side is you may need 3rd in some places that you did not before. Smaller tires are 225/50 R15 on 15x8 wheels at best or 15x7's. You may not believe it, but I think you can stuff a set of 15x8 fuchs on your 87. You might need a bit of negative camber to get them under the fenders, but I think it can work. This would be a nice edge since you get a wider track as well.
Now on the street a NA is fine car, but no powerhouse. Wind it up and it will still give you all kinds of joy. The turbo is a different league in terms of hp, but in many ways masks what the 944 does best. And that is handle surperbly. I had a very nice low miles 84 944. Once I added new shocks the car be came tight lively and hoot to drive on the street. It had plenty of power to move itself and was fun to throw into corners. My Turbo S felt bigger and more ploding by contrast.
So my reason for not giving up my 944 Turbo S is that it is a special car. It can do wonders on the street and track. If I had to sell my cars I'd probably also need to give up racing. Thus my 944 spec car would provide me no fun. So I'd keep the Turbo S so I had nice street car that I could track now and then or daily drive or take on PCA road trips and hang with anyone.
As much as I love my 944 Turbo S.... Stay with NA car. You are young and have solid car. Getting a old beat-up 944 Turbo will be alot of work all over again. Stock vs stock the NA is a faster autocross car assuming you don't need 3rd gear. Sure you can modify it, but even then a modded NA is pretty darn quick around the cones. The problem comes from th 2nd gear of the turbo.
Too tall for most autocross work and you spend alot of time around 2500 RPM. This is NOT the turbo's power band and thus you get zero hp. Then you get blast of power from 3000 to 3500 to 4000 then have to get right back on brakes. You could go to first gear, but making the downshift is never easy into first and then you light-up the tires since you have so much hp. The NA car has much less hp, but even with that it takes skill to put all of it down. In my spec car on race tires usally my first run is part throttle. There are so many turns that even with its limited power I simply can apply all it has. Usallay by the end of the day I am using the power, but it is a tough thing. Now one way you can boost the effective power of the NA is to use shorter tires. This in an autocross setting means you are at more RPM for every ground speed. Thus you can be in a better part of the power curve. Down side is you may need 3rd in some places that you did not before. Smaller tires are 225/50 R15 on 15x8 wheels at best or 15x7's. You may not believe it, but I think you can stuff a set of 15x8 fuchs on your 87. You might need a bit of negative camber to get them under the fenders, but I think it can work. This would be a nice edge since you get a wider track as well.
Now on the street a NA is fine car, but no powerhouse. Wind it up and it will still give you all kinds of joy. The turbo is a different league in terms of hp, but in many ways masks what the 944 does best. And that is handle surperbly. I had a very nice low miles 84 944. Once I added new shocks the car be came tight lively and hoot to drive on the street. It had plenty of power to move itself and was fun to throw into corners. My Turbo S felt bigger and more ploding by contrast.
So my reason for not giving up my 944 Turbo S is that it is a special car. It can do wonders on the street and track. If I had to sell my cars I'd probably also need to give up racing. Thus my 944 spec car would provide me no fun. So I'd keep the Turbo S so I had nice street car that I could track now and then or daily drive or take on PCA road trips and hang with anyone.
03-24-2006, 04:10 PM
#19
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So, you would ask 3,000 for your car?
Simple, give me your car + 6,000.00 and you can have my 86 turbo w/oil cooler, tranny cooler, Fuchs and.....LSD
Simple, give me your car + 6,000.00 and you can have my 86 turbo w/oil cooler, tranny cooler, Fuchs and.....LSD
03-24-2006, 04:20 PM
#20
Stay away from the 951 until you 1)have mastered the NA, they are awesome cars to develop good driving skills on, and 2)until you can afford one (including the maintenance) without having to borrow to get it. You are WAY WAY better off taking the same money and using it as a downpayment on a house, develop a bit of equity and THEN start buying toys. Trust me, debt financing when you are in your 20's is a bad place to be.
Regards,
Regards,
03-24-2006, 04:50 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by sh944
Stay away from the 951 until you 1)have mastered the NA, they are awesome cars to develop good driving skills on, and 2)until you can afford one (including the maintenance) without having to borrow to get it. You are WAY WAY better off taking the same money and using it as a downpayment on a house, develop a bit of equity and THEN start buying toys. Trust me, debt financing when you are in your 20's is a bad place to be.
Regards,
Regards,
03-24-2006, 05:50 PM
#22
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If you wanted to put all that stuff on your NA you should have bought Chris' a while back.
He did all that then took a bath big time when he sold it to another board member.
By the time you do that stuff to your NA you will have more $$ into it than I have into my S2, and I have the turbo stuff already.
Cut your losses
or
Just drive it!!!
He did all that then took a bath big time when he sold it to another board member.
By the time you do that stuff to your NA you will have more $$ into it than I have into my S2, and I have the turbo stuff already.
Cut your losses
or
Just drive it!!!
03-25-2006, 06:37 PM
#24
The car in the classifieds is about to become a daily driver...mine Sorry Jon, my wife asked me to get another one and I figured that was a once in a lifetime occurance.
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Sorry Jon, my wife asked me to get another one and I figured that was a once in a lifetime occurance.__________________
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03-30-2006, 02:03 PM
#25
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Was in the same situation since i was 18, decided to wait and NOT put money in my 84 and just see if the right deal comes up or i'll finally have enough time to finish up the 84.
You know the outcome, you've driven it too.
Since i bought the S2 i moved out from my rents before i turned 21, live with my wife and have to pay for everything so the S2 is basically parked since september, I can't afford the insurance till about midmay. SO in the last year i basically became independent which is not so easy from financial standpoint.
Did i expect that? Not really, just couldn't stand listening to them anymore. Do i think about selling the S2? Not really, i'm not going to mod it and i'm not going to beat on it so it'll probably retain it's value so "money in the bank" excuse doesn't work here. A good financial decision though? Definately NOT. Would i buy the S2 if i could look 1 year ahead?? Hell NO.
What i'm trying to say is, future is not in cars, and my wife helped me realize it. Cars are just passion and a hobby, not our life. So don't strain yourself in your early 20's with money/time/stress that is assosiated(be realistic, it's going to brake down/get modded pretty soon) with a 951 ownership if you have a limited income. People on this forum are in different financial situations, so perspectives on the real cost of 951 ownership are never clear. Obviously you want to race your 951 in the future and you know that to have a competitive, reliable and autox prepped 951 is $$$.
My take on it, from someone who is in the early 20's and with plans for the future, keep your current car and learn how to get 10/10th of it and spend the extra cash to enjoy your life. Travel, party, school, etc.
I have just as much fun driving my daily $500 Rabbit(well, with $1.5K invested) as i do driving the S2. You cannot buy FUN, you can only release it
GL
Vlad.
You know the outcome, you've driven it too.
Since i bought the S2 i moved out from my rents before i turned 21, live with my wife and have to pay for everything so the S2 is basically parked since september, I can't afford the insurance till about midmay. SO in the last year i basically became independent which is not so easy from financial standpoint.
Did i expect that? Not really, just couldn't stand listening to them anymore. Do i think about selling the S2? Not really, i'm not going to mod it and i'm not going to beat on it so it'll probably retain it's value so "money in the bank" excuse doesn't work here. A good financial decision though? Definately NOT. Would i buy the S2 if i could look 1 year ahead?? Hell NO.
What i'm trying to say is, future is not in cars, and my wife helped me realize it. Cars are just passion and a hobby, not our life. So don't strain yourself in your early 20's with money/time/stress that is assosiated(be realistic, it's going to brake down/get modded pretty soon) with a 951 ownership if you have a limited income. People on this forum are in different financial situations, so perspectives on the real cost of 951 ownership are never clear. Obviously you want to race your 951 in the future and you know that to have a competitive, reliable and autox prepped 951 is $$$.
My take on it, from someone who is in the early 20's and with plans for the future, keep your current car and learn how to get 10/10th of it and spend the extra cash to enjoy your life. Travel, party, school, etc.
I have just as much fun driving my daily $500 Rabbit(well, with $1.5K invested) as i do driving the S2. You cannot buy FUN, you can only release it
GL
Vlad.
03-30-2006, 02:44 PM
#26
Race Director
Jon - I say stick with the car you currently have. It's ok to build it up a bit - slap in those brakes, tweek the suspension a little - have fun with the car.
Then start saving for your 944 turbo - don't settle for a cheaper, less than perfect example. Be ready to plunk down ~10k for a decent one. (BTW: I know of a 944 Turbo S for sale in NJ - PERFECT condition for $14k. Haven't seen the car, but the price is a bit higher than where the market is for pristine 944 turbos)
Also: turbo 944's will cost more to insure.
Just some food for thought.
-Z-man.
Then start saving for your 944 turbo - don't settle for a cheaper, less than perfect example. Be ready to plunk down ~10k for a decent one. (BTW: I know of a 944 Turbo S for sale in NJ - PERFECT condition for $14k. Haven't seen the car, but the price is a bit higher than where the market is for pristine 944 turbos)
Also: turbo 944's will cost more to insure.
Just some food for thought.
-Z-man.
03-30-2006, 03:13 PM
#27
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Yea.. i have basically decided to hold onto my car. I just need to be reminded to drive it if i ever consider selling..it always changes my mind quickly . Brakes and control arms will be going in sometime in the next two weeks or so .
. Brakes and control arms will be going in sometime in the next two weeks or so .