yellowline

Question for you:

Is it possible to just go and watch at an LRP DE? I love going there, and I have a long weekend on the 14-15th. My car's not trackworthy, though...T-rated tires, stuff like that.

ClassJ

I agree with some of what you have said. And while the new GTO (monaro) is a good competent car, it certaintly isnt tearing up the sales market. 25K cars in two years is hardly anything to write home about. I think it is mainly due to the fact that it just isnt a GTO, it is a monaro. I think ford sold that many 05 mustangs in the first month or two. GM sold over 200k 65-67 GTO's alone.

Do you know how many people that have or had GTO's in the past would have loved to buy a new retro GTO, tons. Everyone in the pontiac comunitys heart fell when they saw the new car.

Old musclcars are what you make of them. Most people picture old cars that are rattletraps and feel like crap to drive. Take one, do a complete resto on it, upgrade the tires, brakes, suspension etc, and its night and day. Its a labor of love and if you dont do the work yourself it is impossible to get the car the way you want it.

The 60's tempests were some of GM's better cars to begin with. A 65 lemans 326 convert is a great car without GTO trim.

Once again, I am not trying to bash the monaro or the GTO mechanicly, all I am saying is that pontiac should never have revived the GTO name on the monaro body. They just dont get it.

X 944 X

soooo... back to the 944? id imagine the new pontiac roadster is pretty much on par with a NA 944 in terms of power/handling. they are producing that for a sub 20k range, and it doesnt look to be a bad car. (Id prefer the sky) but the site said they both have a 50/50 weight, the HP is weighing in around the same range and all. not sure about curb weights

Tom R.

I had a 67 lemans convertible for a very short time. I was very disappointed with the handling compared to my 68 firebird convertible. too boat like for me.

i agree the new gto should not have been called gto. it is competition for the bmw, not the mullet errr mustang, and calling it a gto made all the silly firebird comparisons. the gto is head and shoulders better than my 4th gen Z28 which even with its solid axle handled as good as a 944 or better (we have the autocross times to prove it). of course the ride was very harsh compared to the 944.

Oh, that reminds me. Shouldnt the question be what modern cars handle as good as a 944 without crushing kidneys any more than the 944 does?
I think the miata is supposed to handle better than the pontiac because the miata is something like 400lbs lighter and a bit smaller than the solstice.

eohrnberger

I agree whole heartily with the sentiment on naming the GTO.

Why Oh Why! Couldn't GM have done with the GTO what Ford did with the Mustang?

Of course, I don't think that the Challenger or Charger look very much like their originals, now do they?

Z-man

Tom, Click HERE for the 2006 NNJR DE calendar. We're at Pocono the week before.

No problem. Just send an email to Russ, our Track chair (trackchair@nnjr-pca.com) telling him you would like to observe the event.

I disagree - especially with the Challenger - it has styling cues taken directly from the original.

-Z-man.

eohrnberger

OK, you got me on that one. I wasn't sure. But still, so like GM is the only one that can't get it right?

Rally Guy

I am truly blessed to have three cars to offer an interesting comparison. I'll list them in oder of handling prowess - from worst to best... (or maybe it should be from great to greatest?)

1990 944S2 (koni yellows, S02's) This is a classic mid-power RWD car. There's excellent high speed stability, turn in is crisp - but the car is a little sketchy in big sweepers, has a troubling twitch under hard braking and oversteers on power-on excelleration out of a turn - no LSD. Fun to hang the tail out, but not the most confidence inspiring of my three cars overall.

2006 BMW 330xi (stock, but crammed full of electro-magic) Only had limited experience here - it's a new car and while it seems confident - it rolls WAY to much, and feels plodding and rolly polly in sweepers. Totally able to put the (substantial) power down due to AWD - but I can sense the electronics kicking in. It's probably emperically fast, but has a disconnected feel that I'm still adjusting to. It's not a sports car (not why I got it) but I'm a sports car guy and I really notice this "sedan-ness" and it's size and weight.

1993 Toyota Celica GT4 (Tein coilovers, racing seats and harnesses, mildly rally prepped).
The combination of being strapped in, knowing the car and the "real" suspension makes for awesome confidence. I'm happy to get this car PAST max slip angles and I know how to catch it. (since I spend hours on ice and snow sliding sidways). The car (on tarmac tires) just sets a poise through a corner and hangs on no matter how hard I hammer. But it's got terrible brakes and that takes much fun out of the overall drive. Fortunately, I don't use them often rallying. : )

Now - this is not apples to oranges - since only the 330 is stock and I'm hankering for the H&R firmer springs already. But the most "fun" to drive car of them all? The Porsche. It's not the "surest" or fastest - but tons of fun. Hmm, could be the huge brakes. : )

And above ALL of these - my buddies Boxster S by far. I'm now hankering for a Cayman S.

RK

callmethewanderer

for the little money, a mazda 3 handles great up to about 80 mph then gets a little jittery feeling, my '87 944 i have not yet found its limit, i'll be autoxing it soon and my '89 S2 is definitely better yet, both porsches are the best handling cars i've ever owned!

White Pony

Of the few cars I've owned in the last few years, two really stick in my mind as realy great handling cars, my 93 Linclon Mark VIII and my 87 Porsche 924s.

The Mark was equipped with air ride suspension and a 32 valve 4.6 liter. It was extremely well balanced as compared to a stock T-Bird, IMO (attribute this to the airbag chassis?) but the auto tranny and the unreliability of airbag the system that made it great in the corners kina killed any enjoyment that you were gonna get out of it. If she only had a 5 speed and thicker skinned airbags

I love my 924 better than anything though, including a rally modded VW Fox and my '74 BMW 2002. It has a confident fel to the steering thhat I just love, even with bad bushings

Plus, I'm 6'9" tall anf I fit in a 924 better than I fit in the Lincoln, my P71 Crown Victoria, and even a Suburban I leased for awhile. Hands down, if you are huge this car is gonna fit you.

formerGMguy

I was very impressed with the handling capabilities of the 944 over this past weekend. I went out to a club event at Gingerman Raceway with a friend who brought his 05' Lotus. My friend is an excellant driver and even pushing his Lotus to the limit was just able to keep up with a 944 Turbo. Granted the turbo was also owned by a gentleman who knew what he was doing (plus it had every suspension mod in the book when it comes to 944's). The 944 was slightly faster on the straight-aways but couldn't match the breaking prowess of the Lotus (even with 993 big reds up front and running Pagid Orange pads). Its still very impressive to see one of these cars hanging in there with technology thats 25 years newer, and a car thats probably close to 1,000 lbs. lighter.

Mark

I recently got to test drive a Caymen S. My 951 has some pretty decent mods (see sig below). The Caymen felt like my 951 with some warmed-up AUTOX tires, with much more 'refined' road manners! The power band was quite impressive - especially the low end grunt! Now...if I can just win the lottery!

AndyK

I think a key benefit of the 944's handling capabilities is the fact that you can get a good 944 for under $9k! All of the new cars you are comparing the 944 to are over $20k and more (well, maybe not the RX-7, Tom).

So, bang for the buck, the 944 is way ahead! Start talking repairs...the charm level drops along with your bank balance!

eohrnberger

I have to agree, the 944 is the most value for the dollar, some would say undervalued, and I'd agree. However, as observed numerous times before, it depends on how much you can do yourself. The more you can do yourself, the better it is for your bank account.

944J

my 944 car has got to be the best handling (and best looking) car in the world for under $575