Copper in the oil
12-29-2005, 08:37 PM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Copper in the oil
Monday I was cleaning up the track car and decided to change the oil filter even though it is not scheduled yet. I have a remote Canton-Mecca cartridge filter and have the housing plumbed so that oil (and contaminants) go into the housing and the oil then goes through the filter. This allows easy inspection. Well, there were copper particles in the bottom of the housing. I drained the oil and when I poured the oil out of the container the bottom of the container sparkled with copper. The engine runs fine and there is no rod knock. BTW, the last filter change, about 12 running hours ago, showed no problem.
I removed the engine yesterday and disassembled it today. The rod bearings are fine although the crankshaft on #2 is not as shiny as the others. The main bearings are all fine. So what is my problem?
Thinking back, I had a turbocharger fail three weekends ago, leaking oil into the exhaust. The turbocharger has brass or bronze bearings that must have failed, depositing particles in the sump. The particles are very shiny so brass makes sense. Had I thought to check the turbocharger first, it would have saved me a lot of work and cost.
Well, I now have parts all over the garage and the next track weekend is in Pahrump, Nevada in three weeks at a track that I have not been to before. Darn!
I need engine rebuilding advice. At this point, the engine has 126 hours on it and since it is apart I really should do a complete job. I will polish the crankshaft and install new bearings. I guess that I should remove the cam box and cylinder head, pop out the pistons and rering. Can I just install new rings and run dino oil for one day to break them in before switching back to synthetic?
Thanks for any advice.
I removed the engine yesterday and disassembled it today. The rod bearings are fine although the crankshaft on #2 is not as shiny as the others. The main bearings are all fine. So what is my problem?
Thinking back, I had a turbocharger fail three weekends ago, leaking oil into the exhaust. The turbocharger has brass or bronze bearings that must have failed, depositing particles in the sump. The particles are very shiny so brass makes sense. Had I thought to check the turbocharger first, it would have saved me a lot of work and cost.
Well, I now have parts all over the garage and the next track weekend is in Pahrump, Nevada in three weeks at a track that I have not been to before. Darn!
I need engine rebuilding advice. At this point, the engine has 126 hours on it and since it is apart I really should do a complete job. I will polish the crankshaft and install new bearings. I guess that I should remove the cam box and cylinder head, pop out the pistons and rering. Can I just install new rings and run dino oil for one day to break them in before switching back to synthetic?
Thanks for any advice.
12-29-2005, 10:52 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
check the center bearing main and see if the "lash" is worn out on it. This would cause the copper also. Many times you will find copper in the oil but not in large quantitys, or this could be a sign that things were getting ready to take a turn for the worse. I would change the bearings out and maybe do a pan baffle/ crank scraper/ crossdrill - one or all of the above and run a half quart over full on the track to keep from starving that crank on the hard turns. I just finished rebuilding mine after #2 spun on the track, no fun.
12-30-2005, 12:58 AM
#3
Pro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The center bearing thrust beaaring sides are still silver. But I was mistaken about the dull crankshaft journal at #2. That was really the back of the bearing that remainded on the crank. #2 is down to copper but there is no roughness on the journal. I caught it in time.
I have the pan baffle and crank scraper but have not cross-drilled yet.
Thanks for your help.
I have the pan baffle and crank scraper but have not cross-drilled yet.
Thanks for your help.
12-30-2005, 01:16 AM
#4
Race Car
I'm another victim of the #2 rod bearing.
Claus, it looks like you have a lot of work to do, if you want to do it right. I would have a machine shop test the block, crank, pistons, bores, etc for being in spec first. If they are not in spec you may need to have the cylinders honed or something like that. I had 126K on mine when I rebuilt it, and my mechanic felt no need to hone the cylinders, but for a track car like yours it may be necessary.
As for your original question, I ran dino oil for initial break in and am still running dino oil 4500 miles later. Some say the piston rings need that long to fully seat and prevent blow by. I did have some oil smoke out the exhaust, and once I switched from Mobil 1 (which I used for the first 300 miles until learning to use dino oil) back to dino oil, there was no more oil smoke out the exhaust.
Claus, it looks like you have a lot of work to do, if you want to do it right. I would have a machine shop test the block, crank, pistons, bores, etc for being in spec first. If they are not in spec you may need to have the cylinders honed or something like that. I had 126K on mine when I rebuilt it, and my mechanic felt no need to hone the cylinders, but for a track car like yours it may be necessary.
As for your original question, I ran dino oil for initial break in and am still running dino oil 4500 miles later. Some say the piston rings need that long to fully seat and prevent blow by. I did have some oil smoke out the exhaust, and once I switched from Mobil 1 (which I used for the first 300 miles until learning to use dino oil) back to dino oil, there was no more oil smoke out the exhaust.
12-30-2005, 01:18 AM
#5
Race Car
also, is it time for a head rebuild? I had new valve grind, valve seats, and valve springs inserted at the same time the bottom end was being rebuilt.
12-30-2005, 02:13 AM
#6
Pro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Joseph,
Every time that I send oil for analysis, they advise that the rings are still seating. That's because I switched to synthetic after one day on the track. This time I'll probably keep the dino for the weekend.
I am going to reassemble with new rings and bearings and go for it. I blew a huge hole in an exhaust valve a couple of months ago when my MAF flatlined lean (died) on the track. I refreshed it then. I also have two cylinder heads disassembled, ready for the shop to rebuild so that I have a spare for the daily driver and the track car. I also have two spare engines to rebuild afterward. I will then be able to swap engines as required.
Thanks for the advice
Every time that I send oil for analysis, they advise that the rings are still seating. That's because I switched to synthetic after one day on the track. This time I'll probably keep the dino for the weekend.
I am going to reassemble with new rings and bearings and go for it. I blew a huge hole in an exhaust valve a couple of months ago when my MAF flatlined lean (died) on the track. I refreshed it then. I also have two cylinder heads disassembled, ready for the shop to rebuild so that I have a spare for the daily driver and the track car. I also have two spare engines to rebuild afterward. I will then be able to swap engines as required.
Thanks for the advice
