Techno Duck

Mileage - 74k miles, as far as i know its never been changed

Coming back from a long ride into NJ last night i noticed the car was becoming increasingly harder to engage first gear. By that i mean from not moving, to moving. I autocross the car this morning and mostly had problems in the parking lot moving around. No problems off the starting line however. I never launched the car hard, mostly just giving it a tad more gas than i usually would when engaging 1st normally.

Anyhoo, an example of what happening will be as i pull away from a traffic light. I start to let out the clutch and give it gas like i normally do...the car shakes a bit, similar to what you would feel if you werent giving the car enough gas. I then hear a slight metallic sounding 'tunk' (good explanation right?) if i push the clutch back in quickly (that stumbling feeling is less than confidence boosting). It sounds similar to just the springs on my coil-overs moving around (usually a sound i hear when going from lock to lock with the steering). However im not 100% sure where its coming from. As long as the car is moving (even at a very slow rate) getting 1st engaged dosent feel any different. Its just getting it going from a stand still thats the problem. All other shifts through the gears do not feel any different. Does this sound like a failing clutch? I wont be able to inspect it until i get home this weekend.

Im hoping there is some other explanation for this as frankly i cannot afford to buy the clutch parts right now...i just did the timing belt and waterpump stuff last month and that cleaned me out. Working one day a week as a student is tough! I will likely do this job at my fathers show with the help of his hired wrench. What type of parts bill am i looking at here?

I know i should get the clutch with the spring center. Is Sach's the company of choice, any other altrenatives worth looking into? How about lightened flywheels, how much would i be looking at for one?

I have a number of things i would like to get done while we are in there...
-Oil leak from rear of block, location unknown
-What sounds like a bad torque tube bearing. Free reving the engine in neutral with the clutch out you can hear a rattling at the front of the tranny. Push the clutch in and the sound goes away.
-Worn 1st and 2nd gear synchros. Is it as simple as just replacing the synchros in the tranny....? Can this be done by a person with little to no experience with transmissions?

I cant catch a break with this car. on the bright side, after having done the clutch i will have all the high ticket maitenence items done on this car. All that would be left is a rebuild to stop burning so much oil at high RPM's.

Hey, there is an end in sight!

unsigned

I spent in the neighborhood of $800 in parts when I did mine. Aside from what came in the clutch kit (PelicanParts is where I got it from) I ordered the bolts that hold the pressure plate to the flywheel and the rea main seal. It also included teh mast and slave cylinders, but those are optional to replace.

I did the job over a month or so, but I figure it took about 16 hours. There were just somethings that didn't go well. My car was from Cali and had 86K on it at the time. I broke no bolts during the job. I'll leave your other questions for others to answer.

I know what you mean about not getting a break. After the list of almost everything you can replace on one of these cars, I thought I was done. Then the odometer broke. I'm one of the lucky early cars to have the gear actually break and not slip like everyone elses. I bought it last year for a very good price and put about that much into it this year.


edit: I have no idea what I was typing last night, but it didn't take me 35 hours to do the clutch. Thats crazy... It was about 16, just a hair over book time. I can't even blame that typo on missing th keys... Maybe it was this:

Dmitry S.

When my rubber center wore out I exhibited the following symptoms:
1. Launching in 1st, I would hear a loud click before the clutch would start engaging
2. 2nd gear, when letting off the throttle, the car would buck quite violently.
3. Excessive transmission noise.

On my S2, my total clutch bill was just shy of $1000, but I went for a Centerfoce unit.
Here are the things that you will need on top of the clutch kit:
1. Pressure plate and flywheel bolts
2. Clutch fork bearings
3. Clutch fork cross shaft (You can re-use some, but mine had lots of wear)
4. Release bearing guide
5. Pilot Bearing
6. Rear main seal.

I also purchased a couple tools for the job to make it easier. I bought:
1. 1/2 drive Snap-On Cheesehead socket for the Flywheel bolts
2. Snap-On pilot bearing puller (I spent 3 hours trying to get mine out until I broke down and bought the tool....Took 45 seconds for it to come out)
3. 19mm Craftsman Damaged Bolt remover. This is for the bellhousing bolts. Chances are, one of them will round off, and this baby was a life saver.

On an n/a car, this should be $600-$700 in parts, and ~$170 for the tools. Since you need to take out the transmission for this job, you could replace the synchros while its out, but I don't know how much that will run. I do recommend that you switch over to the allen head CV bolts if you do end up doing the job.

I'm not having much luck with my car. I haven't driven it since June 5th, when it started leaking PS Fluid, Engine Oil, Coolant, and Transaxle fluid. So, in the past 3000 miles, I have put in:
1. New muffler (Baffle in the old one came loose) ($110)
2. New clutch/rear main seal ($1000)
3. New timing belt/balance belt/rollers/water pump/seals ($400)
4. All new power steering lines/PS cooler ($300)
5. New oil cooler lines. ($280 from dealer)
6. New Air/Oil seperator lines ($110 from dealer!!)
7. All 4 wheel bearings ($180)
8. New front rotors/pads ($200)
9. New tires ($600)
The previous owner has also put in new axles, new shocks, and new tie rods.

And the car is about to go to the body shop from an accident....and I don't have full coverage ($3000)

HY M8NC

Hey Techno-

It sounds like the rubber center is gone from the clutch, I think the '87 came withthe rubber centered one. If not, it's got a broken spring on the pressure plate. There's no doubt the clutch job will take some time, but you can do it. Clarks Garage has a good write up.

I like the Sachs piece. I've seen the kits from $500-$750...

cruise98

Sounds like the rubber center to me too. Since you autocross the car, a spring centered clutch disc is something you should strongly consider.

Techno Duck

The worse problems are i cannot afford the clutch kit right now. I plan to buy the one from Pelican which includes all the clutch stuff including a slave and master cylinder. Its $750 though.

Not to mention my father is going to think im nuts for spending another $700 on this car, he was already yelling at me to sell the damn thing after i spent $600 on the belts...etc. And whats worse is that id probably have to borrow the money from him to get these parts...not to mention have it done at his shop with his wrench helping me!

I almost thought about saving the moeny and having it done by a shop in my area, there are a few well respected PCA recommended places by me, but $1500-2000 is even farther away from happening anytime this year.

So i have about a week to decide what to do before i limp this car home.

I would defenetley opt for a spring centered clutch..no sense in half assing this job even if i cant afford it i think. Not worth redoing this again in a couple of years because i decided to cheap out.

Anyone know anything about the synchros? Where can i buy them? Tough to replace these?

HY M8NC

Book time on that clutch is something like 13 hours (multiply that times the shop's hourly rate) and that gets expensive FAST. You'd be better off doing it yourself over time-

Tom R.

Jon,
I think I told you I heard a clunk on my clutch yesterday when i was standing still.

I have a complete Sachs NA spring centered clutch in my house or my brothers house. Two of the three parts are the same for a S2 or a NA.

Instead of me ordering the third piece and selling the one I have, I will work something out with you and pay say half the cost of the part I need and give you my part if you want. It will probaly save you something like $50. Also, if a group of locals want to have a clutch swap party in the near future..... like after the zone in October.

never did one, but I have a big grill and a 2 car garage.

Techno Duck

Tom, thanks for the offer. I will keep it in mind..but i will probably end up just getting the complete $750+ kit from PelicanParts that has all i need. This way it saves the hassle of trading parts with you.

A clutch swap party would be a God send for me however. Perhaps my father dosent need to know i need a clutch put in... . In return i can do anyones belts / waterpump for them. I have basically three under my belt right now...doing it twice to get it right on my car and a sucessful belt change on another members 924S last saturday (the reason i was driving back from Jersey). Made pretty good time, all belts in less than four hours!

I would provide beer as well...but considering im only 20 that may be a problem. Unless you guys like Miller Lite or Bud Light ....hey im a college kid..its cheap!

Im going to make an attempt at rebleeding the clutch this weekend when i get the car home. Maybe there is air in the line or something causing the clutch to not engage correctly (hey its a shot in the dark, but worth a try!).

The autocross may have made things a bit worse, but i had a blast! I made need to skip the last few events considering my situation however.

Tom R.

Try performance or paragon. i think they are less.

Edit:
Jon, it is the pressure plate that is different. If you want to order a S2 package and swap pressure plates I will pay you the difference and $50.

I bought the package from a board member about three years ago. he needed $ etc. I figured either my S2 or my brother's NA clutch would eventually go. I guess im the lucky winner!!

unsigned

If you guys do this party style, remember to factor time in for flywheel resurfacing. 2 cars and 2 people will still take 2 or 3 days. There just isn't that much room for more than one person to work at a time. It would help for the socket that rolls across the floor while you are under the car.

I bought a cheap set of cheese head/12 point/ triple square sockets that served me well. I can dig up the source if you guys would like.

tod84944

Call Charles at Vertex. They are selling a clutch kit that a few folks here are using with great success. It is spring loaded, and I think it is running less than 400.00 for the kit.

I love porsche

hey jon..thanks for the help on my car...i couldnt have gotten that done without you....i hope the little extra cash can help out for ya, and ill be up to help you in anything you wanna do on your car too