Sunday was the first Sports Car Club of Vermont Autocross for the year (it took that long to unthaw us up here...). I donated my time and designed the course. Small lot but, made the best of it so second gear would pull on all corner exits. I made sure of that and tested the night before.

My early 944 with an original 119k mi tired suspension sure amazed me and also amazed a bunch of new school 320+hp STI's what old school is. My best time was only 0.79 seconds slower than the fastest STI ! The Miata's were in another league. All the cars that placed above me were on track tires and had some suspension tweeks. I pooped out early and bagged it after 6 runs. I could have *maybe* gone quicker, but the damn sun and heat got the best of me. Fun time and it just goes to show how well designed these 944's are even after 20+ years–it still kicks butt.

Now I have the bug up my **** for updating my suspension. Calling on the experienced, please advise if my suggestions or thinking is in the wrong direction.

Currently setup...
7" and 8x15 Fuchs
225/50-15 S-03s
M404 sways front and rear
951 front bumper support and tow hook recepticle - look out Tifo!

My upgrade thoughts were to keep it somewhat my street driver (yes that means rain guys - so the S-03 have to stay) but leaning towards five to six autocrosses per year and trying to lower the CG and body sway on weight transfering...

- Koni sports shocks
- All new bushings
- Dropping the rear 3/4"
- Leave the original torsion bars and front springs (no/yes?)
- M030 sway bars front and rear
- A good old mild street autocross alignment
- Anything else I'm missing?
- More Autocross time behind the wheel, of course!

Photos
http://www.thompsonsmithdesign.com/i...on1/index.html

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/s...en=1&sm=0&sl=0

Thompson
1985 944 #353
1995 //S6
GMR/PCA editor
Mountaineer

 

Nice! Can't wait till my first autocross, hopefully in July.

 

NICE!! Looks good!

 

If you can afford the $250 or so more for Weltmeister swaybars, do it - they are leagues better than the m030s. Also, Id go with Bilstein HDs over the konis, but this is more personal opinion.

You can also get camber plates and run ~ 3 degrees negative - this will help eliminate some of the inherent understeer.

 

What sizes are the Weltmeisters compaired to the M030s? Are there any other Porsche sway bar upgrades other than the M030s that will work and can be had used?

I've run Bilstein HDs on both my two ex-Audi ur-quattro turbo coupes and on my Toy Taco4WD now. They are nice and I might go that route. They seem soft on the Toy, but were stiff (on initial compression) on both ur-quattros and I really liked how they handled at the limit. I did notice an improvement with less body roll. Although, this could have been because I fitted a 24mm rear swaybar on my old '84 ur-quattro too! I've got Koni sports (with stock springs) on my Audi //S6 now and they are good but not really as "sporty" feeling as I was hoping for or what I remember the Bilsteins were. But, they are a HUGE improvement over stock.

 

also get serges rear drop links!!!
if he has any.

omg serge. those things are awesome. i twisted 'em out 5 complete turns on an 18 mm bar.
holy crap...the front is so mushy compared to the rear now. i love it! now to stiffen up the front.

 

I cant wait to get my 944 going, we have autox events out here every weekend. Sweet pics and car man. Ill be the only 944 up here running autox.

 

thompson - you will get as many different opinions as you do answers. everybody knows exactly what you need. i personally think your proposed setup sounds good for starters. i don't have any experience on the bilsteins so can't comment, but the koni yellows were miles better than the worn out sachs shocks on my previous 951, and they are on my 944S now.

i think you're headed in the right direction - new shocks and bushings, good tires, good alignment, and stiffer sway bars. personally i think the weltmeister bars are too much for you now (28mm front, 22mm rear) and you can learn just as easily with stiffer OEM bars, but the most important thing is to find what works for you. i'm happy with my current setup, but it's never perfect, and a lot of guys on this list would argue with how i have the car setup, so it's just a matter of personal preference and experimentation. lots of seat time will help you determine what variables work best for your style of driving.

 

I agree with him on the sway bars. Even the stock 951 bars will make a nice upgrade, and they can be had used for very cheap. As Joseph said, on this topic you will get 10 different answers from 10 different people. . . .

 

Im not sure how the classes there are defined but up here the moment you change your springs you are no longer in the stock class and you have to run with cars that have basically have as many mods as possible. One thing thats nice about Porsches is that you can upgrade the stock suspension with better oem components and still race and destroy in the stock class....i think lol

 

The way I look at the weltmeisters...theyre much cheaper than m030. After you buy the m030s, youd want to get the chassis mount reinforcement bracket ($25), delrin front bushings ($123), rear delrin chassis mount ($100), spherical droplinks (45-110 depending on source). You add this to the cost of the m030 bars ($450) and you still dont get adjustability or the sheer structural rigidity of the weltmeisters.

Thats a good $750. Get welts (or tarrett bars if you want a lighter wallet) and never look back.

Btw, its not the car - you must be a pretty damn good driver to do so well.

 

Very nice pictures. How well did the S2000 do compared to the Miatas?

 

Thanks Serge. I've been autocrossing since around 1977. Mostly in early 911s out in CA w/GGR and LRP regions at Crows Landing, Golden Gate Fields, and Pleasanton. I've done some DE, time trial events, and hillclimbs. Laguna Seca ('87) time trial w/GGR, Virginia City Hillclimb ('94, '95), Lime Rock Park (both with Audi quattro club), autocrossing on-off for the last 10+ years here in VT and Mt. Philo Hillclimb here in VT. I still feel I need more seat time!

Pics are kewl, yaa. The 944's look great (from the outside of a turn) when the suspension is compressed but from the inside it looks like its up on jack stands!

The S2000 is owned by an older guy (in his late 60's) and is really nice dude. I went out and worked a corner with him. He just likes to be in the element. The Miata's... one is turbocharged and tweaked up good, the other two are set up for autocrossing and all the drivers know how to make them work. If the S2000 was driven by one of the Miata drivers I'm sure it would have done well.

Surprisingly, my fastest run was right after lunch and I went out and hammered on it, got it loose, made the 944 rotate pretty well and even had a good drift out of one corner. I thought for sure I'd scrubbed off all my time and speed. Blew me away to see the lowest time I got was on that run. So, I need more track time.

I don't want to change the suspension around too much, thanks for all the advice so far.

 

opps for this one. Classes... we follow a mildly massaged version of SCCA's Pro Solo II. So, I'm in Class 2 es.

 

My first bit advice is don't lower the back of the car.
The rest depends on rules.

I have run my 83 944 a bunch of autocrosses. The car is stock and run same tire sizes with street tires. I have gotten the car to be one of the fastest street tired cars at our PCA autocrosses.

What I have learned is that the car has tons of body roll, but is well balanced. My technique uses alot of oversteer in corners and am constantly getting the back end to rotate. I can use fuel load and spare tire (yes or no) to trim the balanced. Lighter in back = more oversteer. Depending on the course it may be good or bad.

Anyway lowering the rear will generated understeer and that bad 90% of the time. For me I choose to keep the car stock, but my next upgrade would be springs or sway bars, but not both. The one I would pick would depend on the rules. You do want fresh shocks as this helps. Now the only things stiffer spring will do are to allow the car to react quicker and to reduce camber change when cornering. This car stock grips pretty well, but is painfully slow to react. That is a result of soft springs.

Here are some pics of my 83 from the last autocross.

In a hard braking zone. 55 mph to 20 mph

Notice the shadow and the angle. Lots of nose dive. Remember that big sways won't change this behavior at all.

Here is left corner take near the top of 2nd gear. Only a breath of the throttle then turn in drive the car with throttle on the way around a bit 270 deg loop.

In spite of all the body roll the car tended to oversteer here and was blast to drive around this corner. Once the car too a set it was quite quick for being on street tires.