Matt H

On that same note, Michael Andretti leads a sh*t load of laps but never won, often he had the best car on track...just a point to ponder.
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UDPride

Yeah I agree. Hell, throw Mario into that as well. I think Michael and Mario were both good drivers in good cars. For whatever reason I think they had a lot of bad luck. Its not like they were out to ruin themselves. Crap broke on their car late, someone scrubs a tire and knocks off a wing. I dont believe in jinxes but some crazy stuff has happened to those two blokes. Sometimes completely unforeseen.

Michael never seemed to have that late lap misfortune on the road courses which he usually dominated. At Indy, things just went in the crapper. Same cars same driver. Maybe drivers like him never mastered the patience to pace themselves and not take the lead and run at the top early and often. Mears rarely led a lot of laps in the early going and was usually in the back of the Top-10 until about 75 laps to go.

Im talking out of my *** now. I really dont know much about racing. Just what Ive seen on TV.

StoogeMoe

Although I agree she's quite talented, I disagree that she earned her way into the big time. I've been following her since her Barber Dodge days through her Toyota Atlantic years, and she never won! Let alone win a championship. She would normally finish in the top five, but not have the killer instinct to get the win. Michael Andretti won in everything he raced before getting to the big time. Sure having Mario as pops helped, but he EARNED it. Why isn't Jon Fogarty in the Rahal seat? He won the Toyota Atlantic championship twice, beating Danica every time.

The Indy 500 isn't a great guage on a driver's talent. It's more a matter of ancillaries that gets you to victory circle. Danica showed great rookie mistakes, but still finished fourth. Stalling in the pits - big mistake. That spin of hers should have parked her for the day. But cautions at the right time fell her way.

I'll be interested in seeing her drive in the road courses, where true driver talent shows. And I'll be a true believer when she gets her first win.
____________________________________
1986 944 NA - Guards Red - 78k miles
1984 911 Carrera Coupe - Guards Red (gone, but not forgotten)
"If you're not living on the edge, you're not living"

Legoland951

Heck, I'll admit I always have a thing for women who can drive well. Its even better if they can ride a ricer burner bike well

Alpine951

Hey Moe,


You said
"I'll be interested in seeing her drive in the road courses, where true driver talent shows. " Isn't the IRL all ovals like nascar. ChampCar has the road courses and Rahal doesn't race ChampCar.

tomrc

OK, using publicity to keep the sport alive - Good

Turning it into the WWF of racing like NASCAR - BAD

'nough said.

Tom

UDPride

I dont think "true driver talent" shows only on road courses. Ovals are just as tough. Its just a different discipline. The only people who downplay ovals are the ones who never win on ovals. I also think this stereotype is permeated because this is a 944 forum where 944s pretty much are average everywhere but on a twisted piece of road. Were this a 3000GT forum or we'd be saying how tough ovals are and how wimpy road courses drivers are who drive so slow.

Michael Schumacher has flat out said hes too scared to drive a US high speed oval. He calls it insanity. I give an oval basher 3 laps in traffic in an IRL car or a stock car before they are peeing down their own leg. I dont think theres much that takes more skill and concentration than heading into turn one at Indy at 220mph with four cars flanked around you and theres only room to single-file it through the short chute.

Road courses are equally tough in their own way. Ask Rick Mears and he'll tell you road courses are a beeyotch. Ask Michael Andretti and he'll tell you ovals were impossible.

StoogeMoe

IRL is now delving into the world of road courses. So much for Tony George's vision of an all oval series. We all have TG to thank for ruining American open wheel racing.

I agree that ovals are a different discipline. One that favors car setup over driver talent. That's why Rick Mears was so good at Indy. He would tweak his car throughout the race, getting it near perfect at the end. Andretti style was to run flat out as hard as you can even if you're ten laps ahead. I still feel road courses require much more talent. There's so much you have to get right, lap after lap to be fast.

Rick was quite a good road racer until he smashed both his feet in an accident. After that, he wasn't much of a threat. Michael won plenty of ovals too. He was especially good at the short ovals like Milwaukee. He even won at the big ovals at Michigan. Just not at Indy.
____________________________________
1986 944 NA - Guards Red - 78k miles
1984 911 Carrera Coupe - Guards Red (gone, but not forgotten)
"If you're not living on the edge, you're not living"

Geo

Amen to that. On Bimmerforums we are now referring to Tony George as FTG where TG=Tony George (you figure it out). I can't stand him.

See, I think being able to set up a car is part of driver talent.

I'd say the same about ovals. In fact, I'd say you have to be even better because where on a road course you have to be precise to within inches, on a oval, it's much finer than that. Lap after lap. And if you lose it on an oval, you don't just fall off the track and run through the grass.

Oh yeah, having driven at Texas Motor Speedway (the road course uses the full oval and ducks into and out of the infield course on the back stretch), let me tell you, I have a HUGE respect for what the NASTYCAR boys do. I had a twitch on the front "straight" (actually two kinks) at 120 mph about 10' from the wall and the seat cushion is probably still scrunched up. I cannot imagine going through that section at 200 mph. Now, the NASTCAR boys don't have as tight a turn off the front straight as we do (we have a chicane at the end of the front straight), but I was doing almost half their speed.

BTW, I'm not much of an oval fan, but I respect what they do.

He was OK. I wouldn't call him quite good.

BTW, I agree with you that there are plenty of drivers who never make it to the show with lots of talent and others with less talent who do. Andrea DeCrasharis is a perfect example. But I still contend that DP earned her way to where she is.

StoogeMoe

That's funny. Even before DP joined the league, my friends and I called it George's IRL, or GIRL. Because it was occupied by a bunch of no win losers who couldn't compete in CART.
____________________________________
1986 944 NA - Guards Red - 78k miles
1984 911 Carrera Coupe - Guards Red (gone, but not forgotten)
"If you're not living on the edge, you're not living"

Geo

OMG, that is SO hysterical! I LOVE it. I used to say IRL stood for "It's Real Lame."

But I like GIRL. And I agree that up until the CART teams defected, it was pretty much populated with has beens and never will bes. It kills me to think that Buddy Lazier is a Indy 500 champ. He couldn't hold Michael Andretti's (or a host of other contemporaries) driving gloves. And I absolutely cannot believe Jeff Ward can still get a ride. Must be a buttload of family money.

Kelly Chiu

Ahh the IRL, the answer to the question nobody asked. I am still trying to figure out why Tony George had a "vision" and decided that the Indy 500 needed fixing. In 1995 CART was the most popular form of autoracing in the US, and was seriously challenging Formula 1 after Nigel Mansell came over. From 1996 on we had drivers like Jack Miller the racing dentist and Greg Ray who managed to crash out of the 500 twice... now we have AJ Foyt IV.

Personally I think the current IRL cars are ugly, the sidepods, wings and wing endplates are too huge. I didn't see one in person until I was at the Long Beach Grand Prix and saw one next to a Champcar. You can design a car that looks okay with an airbox, but whoever penned the IRL spec got it all wrong... Formula crapwagon.

At least they changed the way the engines sound, the first year of the true IRL spec with the 4.0L stockblock normally aspirated engines sounded awful... now at least they sound slightly better, but not quite as sweet as the sound of turboed champcars.

As for the race, it is sad that the Indy500 has fallen so far that they need the hype from a woman driver finishing 4th as the only story.

TrevorW

Interesting post, some of you are a bit misinformed though, and by the way, Rick Mears wasn't a good racer, he was a great racer.

jjjr944

Pics of the Museum's 935 without those "weird guys" standing in front of it....
I kid!
Great pics!

Ken D

Nice pics. The 935 K3 above won overall at LeMans in 1979. The 935 K3s aren't factory racers, but were modified & developed by the privateer Kremer Brothers racing. Factory stopped racing 935s in 1978 after winning the '77 Manufacturers Championship.