There are a buttload of adjustable dampers available for the 944. Nobody is giving them away however. You can get Ohlins, Penskes, Leda's, Konis, Advance Design, you name it. Shoot Paragon can set you right up with the Koni 2817/2812 combo. They are an inverted, high pressure gas monotube, true double adjustable damper. Be prepared to pay what even really nice 8v 944s are worth though.

You can probably adapt a bunch of different dampers to the rear of the 944. You'd better do your homework though to make sure you're getting valving that is appropriate in addition to fitting properly.

BTW, AGX suck.

 

Thanks Joe, it's nice to get feedback without attitude.

I'm gonna wait on shocks and springs/torsions. I think for now I'll do tires, swaybars, and finish the brakes.

Today I ordered a Centerforce DF clutch, Hawk HP+ pads, Russell brake lines, and Corbeau harnesses. I'll be getting Yoko ES100's in a week or two, and 968 M030 sways. That will keep me happy until I decide what route to go with the suspension.

 

To repeat my original response, perhaps a search is in order.

 

Geo, that was funny. I think with our group, Sean can work it off by trading labor doing something else he does well instead of paying that $1000

The reindexing comes from the different ride height when different size torsion bars are installed. The 31mm hollow is different from the 30mm solid etc so even if you mark the spring plate or use tape measure, they come out different sometimes by alot. The ride height problem is compounded by the poly bushings or delrin bushings when its installed at the same time. I am not sure why but sometimes the spring plate "binds" somewhat due to the imperfections of the torque tube casting so the ride height differ even if using the same diameter torsion bars. It can become a trial and error task.

Sean, it would be fair for shops to charge 5 hours of labor in an 8 hour job only if you pay for the times when it takes them 20 hours to do the same 8 hour job IMO. I would not punish someone for knowing what they are doing. Its like the story of the machine mechanic. When a building sized machine quit working in a factory, they called the best mechanic in the entire world. He said it would cost $20,000 to repair the machine and after agreeing to the price, the mechanic went to work. He walked around the machine for 30 minutes analyzing the situation and finally, he walked to one part of the machine, grabbed a hammer, and tap the machine one time. After the tap, the machine worked flawlessly. When the factory owner complained about the short time it took compared to the price, the mechanic replied: I guess you would also like to pay for my prior 30 years of work to get the experience to figure out how to fix the machine on top of the 30 minutes I spent here today.

 

Makes sense.

At any rate, springs/bars are gonna have to wait. I'll get a good deal more grip from the tires and sways and still retain decent ride quality with the stock setup for the time being. I'll wait on the stiffer setup until I decide exactly what I want to do with the car. As she stands now, it's basically 100% street. I need to wait and see if that's gonna change before I sink 1500 bucks into the dampening.

It's tough trying to decide what to do first: put money in enhancing what the car is already good at (handling), or put money into the car's weak spot (acceleration). I was mulling over this for quite a while. There's logic to both sides.

I'll get to the acceleration bit later this summer (...right Danno???).

For now, I'll "get 'em in the twistiez, yo."

 

You have a roll bar for those harnesses? Shouldnt run a harness without roll over protection for your own safety. ES100's are ok for daily driving, but arent that greta of performers... I have em btw. I just got Hawk HP+ pads all around too, just waiting for the rotors.
~Eyal

 

Gee really? Ohlins? No way... Theres nothing for about 100 a shock.

Because i have 4x the amount i spent on my car to spend on shocks. The only common non-coilover adjustable shock is the Koni, which isnt easily adjustable. Maybe I'm asking for too much? The AGX dont suck. Koni sucks. A matter of opinion, no?

 

Way.

I suppose. I mean there are people who like beets over chocolate. I don't get it though. I suspect you just have been using the wrong Konis.

 

Not a huge Koni fan either but I would take them over the KYBs any day. Just for fun, the President of KYB USA was in my office about 3 days ago. Very nice Japanese man. I am not super keen on their products but they know their stuff.
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I'm really not concerned about getting stuck in a harness and snapping my neck in a ghastly rollover. My neck protection comes from the fact that my driver's seat lateral adjuster is worn and I constantly have to roll the seat upward because it leans itself back a noiceable amount about every day or two. Something tells me that it would give if a good deal of pressure was applied to it all of a sudden. haha. Besides, how many rollovers have you seen in sports cars in daily driving conditions where the roof was completely collapsed? I really don't see or hear of too many of them. I don't get myself into too many situations where a rollover is likely. And while accidents do happen, I'm one that kind of thinks whatever is "supposed" to happen is going to happen. You can't prepare for freak accidents...hence the name.

I've heard the ES100's are better than most in their price range. Frankly, I would have preferred the Falken Azenis for a summer street tire, but they only make them in a few sizes. Besides, they're better than the mis-matched (Fr/Rr) rubber I've got now. All Michelins, but the front is not a performance tire, and the sidewall gives a lot, so it feels off-balance front to rear.

How long have you been on the ES100's? Are they wearing well?

I can't wait to get those pads and brake lines on, should make quite a difference.

 

Getting back to the reindexing

I reindexed mine a few weeks ago over a couple of days, i did take long breaks and thoroughly cleaned everything up - so, it could be completed in 7-8 hours by a average DIY'er.

A number of things need to come apart and it can be quite daunting - but if a methodical approach is taken it is quite straightforward. I found the physical reindexing - the turning of the torsion bar in one direction, and the end carrier in the opposite the most difficult. The movement in the bar has to be VERY careful, and not for the fainthearted, because the splines are particularly small - a sensitive hand is required, and it is easy to make a mistake.

I have posted some pitfalls etc (but not step by step instructions since there are plently of these about) at

http://www.porsche968uk.co.uk/phpbb/...pic.php?t=1844

re the harnesses - i concur with whoever asked if you have a roll bar. I have a very solid rollbar because i have harnesses. Also, consider the angle of the shoulder straps since if they are connected directly to the rear seat belt mounts then the angle could be too acute potentially resulting in broken collar bones when the belts attempt to 'collapse' in a frontal impact. Hence the importance of a harness guide bar (and better still a half cage with one built in)

JP

 

Stupid question but I know next to nothing about suspension systems and it's an area I would like to learn more about. Can someone explain in noobie / FAQ type format what "reindexing the torsion bars" means exactly and why it would be beneficial? Sorry for the idiot question, but there isn't much educational-type material available by searching; most of it is way beyond my technical knowledge in this area. Brakes or drivetrains I'm fine with - suspensions I've done very little with. All I've done is change coil springs, a couple of worn bushings here and there, etc. What exactly is the setup on the 944, what makes it so great in handling (this I'm well aware of, but I would like to start to understand the mechanisms of what MAKES it so great). I understand major components and what their intention is - i.e. shocks, struts, sway or "anti-roll" bars, etc. Just when people start talking about stuff like this and trailing arms and such things, I feel quite lost as I've never had the need to mess with such things.

As with most things, understanding the specifics of how exactly something works and the role each part has to play as part of a greater system is crucial to understanding whether a particular upgrade is worthwhile or not and how to properly "tune" the car for what I want it to do. There is precious little information in this area on here and elsewhere. A good FAQ would be appreciated. TIA.

 

Remember that a torsion bar is basically a spring (a special sort of spring). Think of the position of the training arm on the torsion bar as the spring perch. If you install a heavier spring on the same perch the car will sit higher because it takes more weight to compress the spring an equal amount, or said differently, the same weight will not compress the spring as much.

Now think in terms of a torsion bar. If you mount heavier t-bars and attach the trailing arms in the exact same orientatin on the splines (remember, this is equivilent to the height of the spring perch), the car will sit higher because it takes more weight to twist the torsion bar an equal amount. Conversely, if you change the orientation of the trailing arm on the torsion bar it will lower the bar (or raise it depending upon which direction you go). Changing the orientation or indexing of the trailing arm (or the other end) is equivilent to changing the height of the spring perch on car with conventional springs.

 

Jeff,

Think of it this way...imagine someone coming up to you and giving you an indian burn on your arm. That's how a torsion bar works as a spring to support the weight of the car: the force twisting one direction represnts the weight of the car twisting the torsion bar one way; the force in the opposite direction represents the bar's resistance from not allowing the bar to spin due to the splined shaft where it mounts.

To "re-index" the bar simply means to rotate the bar so as to position it differently in the perches/mounts, either raising or lowering the car. In our case, it's to lower the car, but truck guys commonly go the opposite way in order to get a cheap lift. Supposedly you can get up to 1" of travel from adjusting the T-bars on the 944's, but this also changes the rebound rate (lowering the car via the adjuster relieves tension from the T-bar and makes the ride softer).

Torsion bar setups are extremely common in trucks and muscle cars...but in these applications, the setup is very simple and easy to work on. What I don't understand is why Porsche took a simple concept and made it more complex than it seems it should be. I guess they had success with the 911 and carried it over to the 944 (I'm not sure what other Porsches utilized T-bars)...and maybe the reason it's so complex is because they were taking the torsion bar setup as far as they could instead of spending the money to update the rear suspension...they just tweaked what they had as best they could, and the result was 8 hours of labor to essentially change rear "springs."

 

Changing the indexing on a torsion bar will not change its effective spring rate. That's like saying changing ride hight using conventional springs changes the spring rate.