David Floyd

I agree, you are this close do the baffle.

The updated Porsche plastic unit is about $70 from Sunset Porsche, if you have a late car it is already done.

The Lindsey Racing flapper door kit is $60 is also extra protection.

DDP

I think I already have the upgraded stock unit. I am speaking of the Lindsey one.

Dan Gallagher

lost mine at pocono going clockwise!

Z-man

Just one more thing...

Everyone here is giving all this good advise, but the fact is that if Derek doesn't do this upgrade, AND his engine happens to go 'Boom!' the only person whose wallet is going to be lightened is, indeed Derek. Unless someone wants to pony up the $$!

Not for nothing, but if you really want to be serious about this, an accusump is the answer...

-Z-man.

Der Rennwagen

I've got an early '85 (M44/02 engine #43F40303) and I'm about to fix an oil pan gasket leak and do the front engine seals and also do the timing belt, balance shaft belt, water pump, seals etc. I plan to drop the engine and do the clutch as well. Pretty much a reseal and major maintenance without touching the top end, as the engine runs really strong now. Ok, I'll detail the valve cover...

Time for rod bearing and nuts, you bet. I was thinking about the baffling the pan as well, good time right? I do plan to track this at DEs and autocross.

Qs
1. What is the Porsche part number for the plastic baffle? Could I look in the latest Aug 2004 edition of the PET PDFs for this?

2. Porsche factory rod bearings or use OEM aftermarket ones?

3. What about the oil pan gasket, factory or? Danno's proceedure with Yamabond or kick down and buy the Silica Porsche recommended stuff?

M758

I have never had stock pan gasket leak on my on any of my 3 rebuilds. Never used anything other than stock pan gasket with no lube. It just takes a long time to slowely go around and tighten the bolts many many times in small steps to get the pan to set nicely.

Z-man,
I wish and accusump was the solution. All my information tells me it is not.

JDeitz951

I replaced my rod bearings at 127K miles when I rebuilt the engine after buying the car. The car had never been to the track as far as I know. I measured the bearings carefully and compared to the new ones. The old bearings showed NO measurable wear.

So I wouldn't be frantic about replacing them. But if your in there, go ahead. According to those with more know-how and experience than I, you should ALWAYS rebore the rods and caps to within .0001" for concentricity before installing new bearings. I did not. They measured just fine.

I also did not update the baffle. I forgot why not but it was probably time and money. I was using up lots of both on that job. Also I have an article by Derek Huntley that swayed me against the need to baffle.

Here's Huntley's article and one on the replacement procedure:

http://members.rennlist.com/jerseysh...d_Bearings.doc

http://members.rennlist.com/jerseysh...eplacement.doc

KLR

Given that you're almost all the way in there and have almost all the parts, I can't see why you'd wait until next year and tear the car apart again. On the flip, though, I don't think anyone has mentioned one of the more important variables here, which is tires and suspension. With street tires and stock everything else, your risk profile for this failure is quite different than with slicks or r-compound tires, helper springs, etc. As well, if you are a novice running in the green group at DEs, the car has a very different experience on the track than if you're running in red. All things to consider.

nine-44

OK, I pulled my factory bearings out of my 86 NA. I had an oil pressure problem that I beleived to only be the sender, gues what, nope. At 310K miles I ended up driving my car for 25 miles with ZERO oil pressure, about 21 highway and the rest city. I pulled them, they looked good, the only copper showing was the trust side that the clutch pulls on. The crank looked beautiful and I put stock sized back in it. Still going fine at 326K miles running strong.

I also decided to freshen up my 87 951 motor that I swapped into the 954. 87K miles meticulously maintained by and aircraft mechanic that bought it new and ran synthetic oil also. They had more wear than my NA had. Looked worn and lightly discolored, especially on #2. I did do the Lindsey pan baffle and rod bearings.

My personal suggestions. I'd say at 100K for turbo cars and 150K for NA cars, do the rods and mains as preventative maintinence and the crank should stay in good shape, enough to be able to just do bearing swaps. For track cars, if it's dedicated, I would think that you would want a heads up on any problems arising and want to inspect every other season if not every season.

I see the problem as oil supply, airration, cavitating and baffling.
-Crossdrilling only helps supply, if air is in the system, it may blow it through slightly quicker and show a little improvement, not a cure.
-Baffling if done correctly will keep from or at least minimise the air being sucked into the sump.
-cavitating, pulling more oil than can drain to the bottom of the sump, resulting in the sump sucking air down the sides of the pickup. The Lindey pan baffle comes with a collar for the pickup to minimise this.
-crossdrilling and dry sump with extensive baffling would be a sure fix. Who wants to pay the price, I'd love to but I don't have the cash.

Anyting you do would at least help, but cost vs effectiveness over stock or just keeping up with bearings, I don't beleive is a provern thing so far, at least not as a sure thing cure. I did bearings, plan to keep them on a PM schedule and have the Lindsey pan baffle kit.

Just my opinion

luckett

Does the #2 rod beaing problem affect all 944 derivatives or was the problem addressed by Porsche at some point (hopefully before the 3.0L!)?

I've had the unfortunate "pleasure" of spinning a #2 and grenading an engine at Road Atllanta in an early NA.

DDP

Thanks for all the info guys. I'm loving what Derrek at Huntely wrote. Very interesting. I have decided to not do it. No time, no money. If it lasts it does, if it doesn't it doesn't. I don't feel like doing it right now and I think it should be fine. LIke I said, I think it is all about oil changes and the PO had those changes regularly. Thanks for all the feedback. I'm off to the track.

Edit: Don't you think Derrek would be able to spell his own name correclty? Sheesh!

RedlineMan

Hey;

Rod bearings are listed as a 15 hour proceedure, including gauging the bearings. Multiply that by your mechanic's rate and you see where you are at.

Rod bearing nuts are $13.20. I don't know about the baffle. You should not need exhaust gaskets, but if your rings on the x-over pipe are trash, they are $25.45ea.

The general tell-tale for rod bearings is hot oil pressure at idle. If you are under 20psi, you might better do them. I mean RED hot after a track session. I wouldn't worry a wit about autocrossing. If you're that close to them, DO THEM. Forget the baffle. Unless you track the car hard, you don't need it. Take the time and do it now, even is you miss a few events. From where you are at it should only take another day.

Two items that I mofidy for track cars to make this job a ZILLION times eaiser and faster. If you pay someone to do it, they will pay for themselves in labor savings the first time you have the service done again.



3-piece crossmember. This works for ANY track car.



2-piece x-over pipe. 944T specific.

lleroyb

Hard to believe after all this time there is still so much mystery about the #2 bearing failure. I have read all I can find on the subject. What I believe from what ofhers have said...
'89 baffles and aftermarket baffles, can only help but not a sure cure.
Run a pint or so over full mark. Never run less than full. Check the oil after every run.
Accusump is not a cure.
Racing with slicks greatly increases the risk.
Turbo Cup cars changed rod bearings as preventative maintenance, had no failures.
Prep drilling makes more sense to me than cross drilling, if centrifugal force is part of the problem. Much debate over that though.

Lou