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Autocross questions...

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Old 02-11-2005, 10:51 AM
  #16  
M758
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Originally Posted by joseph mitro
regarding alignment, i just had my car aligned today. i used coilovers at all four corners and lowered the car down to 25" at each wheelarch after reindexing the torsion bars. i asked my garage to give me a good alignment for both autocross and DE. here's what i got:

front: -2.0 camber, 1/16" toe out
rear: -2.7 camber, 1/16" toe out


what do you think? car seems to rotate easily just on driving it back home and on some twisties.

Hmm....

Not really sure exactly. What spooks me is the 1/16" toe OUT in the rear. I was told by Chris Cervelli a couple years ago that toe out in the rear of any 944 is BAD IDEA for the track. Reason is that geometry of the rear suspension is such that it naturally toe's out under braking. Thus the back end gets very unstable under hard braking thus it is hard keep the car under you or to trail brake at all. THe way to reduce this tendancy is replace all the rear bushings with metal. This will take out much of the play, but not all. On cars with stock bushings or not metal then he adds in a little toe IN so that it stablizes the car underbraking. It is in the transition from braking to turn in where the fast guys are fast and win races. So better to have the car stable enough to go deep rather than be fighting the car.

So given that I told Chris to align my 944-spec car.
Here is what he did. This was for a 2625 lbs corner balance with driver 350lbs front springs, 30 mm t-bars and welt sways. Race Track use no autocross

Front
Camber -3.5
Caster +2
Toe = 0

Rear
Camber -2.5
Toe = 3/16 Toe in

Ride height = Level front to rear at rocker panels.

Car is very stable under hard braking and I can easily rotate the car using trail braking if/when needed. I have run as much a 1/16" toe out in the front, but too much results in scrub down the straights. This not a concern for autocross, but certainly one or the track.


Now i see you are runnign more negative camber in the rear. That may counter act some of the oversteer from the toe-out. Also at autocross I'd bet that rear toe might be nice, but I worry about the stability at the track. Come into a corner ao 110 MPH and stand on the brakes for 2nd corner and becareful you don't swap ends.
Old 02-11-2005, 12:00 PM
  #17  
Vaino
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I would agree with Z-Man on waiting for "R" Compounds. You will build your skills to higher level quicker when you don't have the "R" tires. When you find yourself with a 1.5 to 2 second windows of the more senior drivers, and you honestly feel you have reach your limit of learning on the street tires, then go for the "R" compounds. If you start with them, they will mask BAD habits, and you won't be as quick or skill in the long run. I waited out most of my first year with Street tires, and swapped to "R" compound very late in the season. It really paid off for me.
Old 02-11-2005, 12:46 PM
  #18  
Z-man
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Originally Posted by Vaino
When you find yourself with a 1.5 to 2 second windows of the more senior drivers, and you honestly feel you have reach your limit of learning on the street tires, then go for the "R" compounds.
Actually, I'd take it a step further - with you find yourself with a 1.5 to 2 second LEAD over similar cars running on R-compounds, that's when it's time to upgrade to sticky rubber!

Vaino really did kick it up a notch (or two) late in the season last year. But didn't you also freshen up your suspension at the same time?!? (Please share...) Vaino - I predict that you will be the one to watch amongst front engined wasser pumpers this season!

-Z.
Old 02-12-2005, 12:56 AM
  #19  
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Thanks Z-Man, I was fortunate, and hope to be in the future. I updated the suspension while it still had street tires. Camber Adjustments, Bilsteins all around, 19mm M030 Rear Bar, and a 25.5mm front bar. The combination really helped the car settle in better into the corner. See below:

Suspension Improvements

I'm looking forward to more fun this season. Its important to known how much there is still to learn. I'm hoping to join you guys out on the track for a couple of the DE's. I hoping for Limerock and Watkins Glen, to prepare for Porscherama in the fall.



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