Cocytus

So a while ago some of you may remember me trying to troubleshoot my car's sticking clutch, thinking it was a master cyl failure. Well, before investing in parts an' such, I took it to a free-estimate place at a local shop that does transmissions/clutches, etc. He said that he's found a leak in the slave cylinder, and leaking brake and "gear" fluid out of the front of the transmission.

This conincides with someone I just talked to -today- thinking it could be a failed clutch pressure plate. He described how it worked to me, drew some pictures, etc. Showed me that my slave cylinder could fail due to increased pressure, if the pressure plate is indeed the problem. Told me that a fix would be time intensive, and a good amount of work, but not terribly difficult to do on my own if I had a lift, tools, etc. He said I should be able to buy clutch-kits that'll include new pressure plates, a guide-tool for the plate/flywheel (something about always having to put the bolts back on in the exact placement or some such). He also said I ought to resurface/replace the flywheel while I've got it apart, since it's right there.

The shop that looked at it said they'd charge me $375 plus parts to drop the transmission, but it looks like that's just to pinpoint the work. I'm not sure. Even if it includes repair labor, a quick search of Pelican Parts shows clutch kits in the $700-$800 dollar range, and flywheels to be $280+. I haven't seen a shop that didn't quote me significantly more for parts I can find on my own. Rough, conservative math places my repairs at a shop (a non-Porsche-specific one, mind you, since being in the Navy means I can't really afford Porsche-dealership labor charges) to be upwards of $1500. Probably more. Back when I thought this was master cylinder failure, I was balking at paying $350 to have it done, vice doing it myself.

So, what I'd like to know from everyone is:

Do these things sound about right?
How feasible are self-repairs on this, really?
What kind of parts/kits/things should I look at buying, and where from?
Would upgrading to high-performance versions of the flywheel/clutch plate result in decreased lifespan, since the price differences, at these ranges, aren't that large? (it's a daily driver/no track, albeit a little faster than I'd drive, say, an Accord),
Most importantly, does anyone know where/if there's a replacement procedure (preferably with photographs/drawings) for clutch replacement work (or whatever else it really is, if this diagnosis is wrong)? I've got the shop manuals, but haven't flipped through them yet, and I found a master cylinder replacement online, which now doesn't help me.

Thanks in advance for everyone's help/advice. I can be reached at cocytus.da@gmail.com if you would rather email, for whatever reason.

-Josh

Strike-Force

I replaced the clutch on my 85.5 944. I'm in high school and it went out first day of summer break. Replaced it with a centerforce dual friction clutch (www.dualfriction.com) (No affiliation, delete link if you feel it nessecary) and I am very impressed. I think the feel is night and day. It took me (A 17 year old) about 20 hours to do it all. I have access to a garage with two lifts and a full set of tools though. The process isn't that hard, it's a little tedious, but with enough work you can get anything done. PM me if you have any more questions.

Zero10

There are lots of OEM Sachs spring-centered clutch kits on EBay for around $400.
That's probably the cheapest solution.
I don't know how it could leak brake fluid and gear oil out of the front of the transmission, since the clutch slave is up front...
Check out Clark's Garage www.clarks-garage.com for a full detailed procedure.
I wouldn't bother going with anything heavier than a stock clutch, they are more than adequate, and will give you the best feel and streetability.

Cocytus

Asked about gear fluid coming from the front of the transmission. As some of you may know (and I just learned) my transmission has fluid in it, known as gear fluid, and a leak of said fluid could be due to a bad seal where the clutch interacts with the transmission.

I'm told a leak of this fluid could lead to increased heat, resulting in damage to my pressure plate, slave cylinder, and other components. I'm also told the fluid is thick, so leakage to the pressure plate could restrict operation, likewise resulting in damages.

There's a fully-loaded garage on base, so I think I'll put the car on a lift, pull the transmission out, and see what, if anything, I can recognize. Then get parts and effect repairs. Or put it back together and have someone else do it if it's beyond my scope. I've got the workshop manuals, and a friend that's got experience replacing clutches on BMW's and Mercedes (although I doubt there's a huge difference in any car with a manual transmission), so between the two of us, we ought to be able to learn some stuff and make some progress.

Any tips/ideas/reminders from people experienced with this?

Zero10

The transmission and the clutch are seperated by about 4 feet.
Gear oil on the pressure plate would make it move wonderfully, I just wonder what it would do to the friction material.

KuHL 951

I think what the mechanic meant is there is brake fluid leaking from the clutch slave and the front seal at the transaxle is leaking. Generally fluid from a slave leak won't get thrown up onto the clutch, it can happen but really isn't all that common. I would replace the slave first, and see if the clutch operation seems normal or not. The last thing I would do is assume the trans has to be dropped. Fight your battles with the smallest sword first, don't start out with the heavy artillery, it's not all out war. A slave swap is cheap, easy, and solves a multitude of clutch problems.

Macfreak007

make sure when buying a Sachs clutch kit that the actual clutch disc is a genuine sachs part, sometimes companies sell kits where the disc is actually a CHEAPO part, so that they can sell the kit more cheaply and people will never know. Look for an official sachs stamp if your not sure how else to recognize one.

Cocytus

Macfreak, I was looking at kits on Ebay, where they say they're new/sealed by Sachs. Is that safe to assume all Sach's parts, or is it safe to assume I need to check on it, first?

2Tight, sounds reasonable. I can understand (I think) how a slave leak would make my clutch behave as it does, but wouldn't a leak at the front seal be one of those get-it-fixed ASAP things? I was led to believe that allowing that fluid to get onto other components is no good, and that allowing it to run out will make for some potentially permanent damage in/around the transmission. Does that not require dropping the tran to do said fix?

Macfreak007

I would still be careful on those kits, but it sounds okay....

replaceing of the slave cylinder will only require removing the starter, its actually a really easy replacement. Make sure you are careful with the fitting on the slave line though, maybe use a flared line wrench, as has been talked about on here before.
if you need to do the clutch then you are going to need to drop the tranny yes!
but not just for the slave...
do you have a haynes manual, or the factory manuals? if not get one fo the two and use ClarksGarage as a supplement, do a search!
oh and welcome to rennlist!!! where are you from?

tod84944

Cocytus, got your e-mail.

KuHL 951

I guess what I'm trying to say is the clutch slave would be the first thing I would check before doing the serious work of dropping the trans to see what's wrong with the clutch. If a new slave solves your clutch problems then a Clutch Master Cylinder replacement should be part of the overall plan in the near future also. Both are easy DIY projects especially with a $40 power bleeder.

The minor leak at the front seal of the trans does not require immediate attention; unless your fluids get low (easily ckecked); I would consider it another nuisance leak that we all deal with at some time or another with these cars. A leaking front transaxle seal will not damage any components I know of except internal parts if lubricants are low; again check the fluid level.

I feel if any mechanic told me that he has to drop the trans to 'inspect' my clutch I would run away quickly but then again I've worked on my own cars for longer than I would like to admit and I'm jaded. Once he drops the trans I guarantee you you will 'need a clutch' 'while he is in there'. Personally I would tackle the known problem of the slave first and see what happens. If the clutch is toast you haven't wasted a cent because now you will have drop the trans anyway. Unless the trans seal is spewing a 1/2 quart a day, it can wait. Call me cheap but there is an order to my madness.

Cocytus

I never got the Hayne's 'cause all I've heard was bad things about it, and no store's had it in stock for me to peruse. I did get ahold of the workshop manuals, so I'll check those and Clarksgarage for slave cylinder replacements, and look at doing that this weekend when I get it up (unless I see something terribly different - not likely 'cause I won't know what I'm looking at half the time).

There hasn't been any fluid on the ground, even after sitting for over a week. Since the clutch did this the very first time (happened once and then didn't happen again for a few months) it's been almost nine months. Within the past 3 weeks I had to add some brake fluid 'cause the light came on from the resevoir being low. I've been checking it and it doesn't seem any lower than when I added it. This being the case, it doesn't look like I've got insane fluid leaks...

Now all I need is for the weekend to hurry up and get here.

marky522

From what you said in your last post i would safely assume that your problem is either your clutch master or slave cyl. check to see if the floor by the clutch pedal is wet at all with brake fluid, if it isnt chances are its your slave cyl. it is reccomended that you change the two at the same time because the other one tends to fail soon there after.

Good luck,
Mark