Wasnt someone looking for a ferrari 308 here???
01-18-2005, 04:19 AM
#46
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From personal experience and lots of talk with fellow Lambo owners, I strongly suspect that lack of qualified mechanics and also very sporadic (non-existent) service manuals has a lot to do with the “reliability” of Italian exotics.
Ferrari, Maserati and Lamborghini were very small companies with equally few resources especially when it comes to service, but they truly attracted the best engineers who designed and helped create excellent cars. The typical Italian exotic owner also has an aversion for greasy fingers and too readily hand the car over to anybody, who wants to work on it.
For those reasons I personally had to rebuilt my Espada engine and found only a handful of things, that could benefit from being re-engineered and many design features to be admired.
Laust
Ferrari, Maserati and Lamborghini were very small companies with equally few resources especially when it comes to service, but they truly attracted the best engineers who designed and helped create excellent cars. The typical Italian exotic owner also has an aversion for greasy fingers and too readily hand the car over to anybody, who wants to work on it.
For those reasons I personally had to rebuilt my Espada engine and found only a handful of things, that could benefit from being re-engineered and many design features to be admired.
Laust
01-18-2005, 08:20 AM
#47
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I guess I'm comparing my operating costs from the last 8 years of daily driving the 924S to a "garage queen" status vehicle, and that may be a bit unfair. I do look at mine as a way to get from point a to b.
And yes, after being out all night (FWIW, every night outside for the last 3 years) it started right up in our 5 degree temps here. Warming up now.
And yes, after being out all night (FWIW, every night outside for the last 3 years) it started right up in our 5 degree temps here. Warming up now.
01-18-2005, 04:57 PM
#48
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I know people with Ferraris as well. Apparently, if you want the car to run correctly, YOU MUST DRIVE IT ALL THE TIME!!!! I meta guy with a TR and said that if its not driven regularly week in and week out, it would immediately start acting up. My cousin owned a Ferrari as well. You gotta keep everything working. A high-mileage Ferrari is probably the better one to own!
As for maintenance, it seems the NEW cars are probably the best ever built finally. And Lambo is finally built with standards and can last being driven regularly! (thank you Germans!)
Yeah, our cars can do the same thing for a quarter the cost. Nothing sounds Italian though. I will always drive a Porsche, but i need to have Italian one day for the sound. (Gallardo w/ Tubi....sick!)
As for maintenance, it seems the NEW cars are probably the best ever built finally. And Lambo is finally built with standards and can last being driven regularly! (thank you Germans!)
Yeah, our cars can do the same thing for a quarter the cost. Nothing sounds Italian though. I will always drive a Porsche, but i need to have Italian one day for the sound. (Gallardo w/ Tubi....sick!)
01-18-2005, 05:11 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by Laust Pedersen
For those reasons I personally had to rebuilt my Espada engine and found only a handful of things, that could benefit from being re-engineered and many design features to be admired.
Laust
Laust
Ken
01-18-2005, 10:22 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by Laust Pedersen
From personal experience and lots of talk with fellow Lambo owners, I strongly suspect that lack of qualified mechanics and also very sporadic (non-existent) service manuals has a lot to do with the “reliability” of Italian exotics.
01-18-2005, 11:08 PM
#51
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Ken D,
Al Burtoni is one of the very few people I would fully trust my Lambos to, but he is not inexpensive. He is also more of a traditionalist than me and since I wanted to add an engine management system (Electromotive’s TEC-1) and some extra power, I saw it more practical to do it locally (lived in Orange County, CA at the time). I had quite a few discussions (and still have) with Al and I very much admire his no-nonsense approach and huge experience and did end up buying custom made pistons from him for my Espada.
If you are further interested in the rebuild ordeal then take a look here .
FSAEracer03,
My very first car was a Triumph Vitesse (as British as they get). I upped the HP by maybe 50% (from maybe 100 HP to a “huge” 150 crank HP) and it spat gear and differential teeth out like a boxer whose opponent has a horseshoe in his glove.
I was forced to screw on every nut and bolt just to keep it running. In essence I never had a chance.
Absolutely not so with the Lambo. It truly is very reliable if you find and correct the few flaws it does have. I can let it sit for months even outdoors, turn the key to let the fuel pressure build, crank the engine for a fraction of a second and it starts right up. 90k total miles and 30k miles after the rebuilt.
Laust
Al Burtoni is one of the very few people I would fully trust my Lambos to, but he is not inexpensive. He is also more of a traditionalist than me and since I wanted to add an engine management system (Electromotive’s TEC-1) and some extra power, I saw it more practical to do it locally (lived in Orange County, CA at the time). I had quite a few discussions (and still have) with Al and I very much admire his no-nonsense approach and huge experience and did end up buying custom made pistons from him for my Espada.
If you are further interested in the rebuild ordeal then take a look here .
FSAEracer03,
My very first car was a Triumph Vitesse (as British as they get). I upped the HP by maybe 50% (from maybe 100 HP to a “huge” 150 crank HP) and it spat gear and differential teeth out like a boxer whose opponent has a horseshoe in his glove.
I was forced to screw on every nut and bolt just to keep it running. In essence I never had a chance.
Absolutely not so with the Lambo. It truly is very reliable if you find and correct the few flaws it does have. I can let it sit for months even outdoors, turn the key to let the fuel pressure build, crank the engine for a fraction of a second and it starts right up. 90k total miles and 30k miles after the rebuilt.
Laust
01-19-2005, 09:13 AM
#52
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Greetings. Returning member here under a new ID. Been about 3 years since i posted.
Not to beat a dead horse but ...
Earlier in the thread people seemed to misunderstand what I took as the implied but nonetheless straightforward criticism of the Ferraris as daily drivers. Not that they are not serious cars for drivers. They are both great driving machines. Ferraris are just not built to handle daily driving like Porsches are.
Try depending on a Ferrari for 365 day a year driving in the Canadian climate. Minus 9 degrees Farenheit here yesterday (minus 23 Celsius). Car in the middle of an empty parking lot 20 miles from home at 10PM at night. Feeling nervous Enzo?
The car I wanted most as a kid was the 944. The car I thought was the most beautiful I had ever seen, probably would have been the mid 70s 512 Berlinnetta Boxer or the early 70s Dino. Nothing against Ferrari here, but you can get a 944 for the price of a used Tercel, put $2K in annual maintenance. Drive the bejeesus out of it through 90 degree heat and minus 30 blizzards, carry your brother's air conditioner in the hatchback and still be able to parallel park in the urban jungle.
My first 944 (a 1987 944S) gave me over 35,000 miles of service over 3 years and when it got T-boned and written off the insurance adjuster valued it at more than my original purchase price.
Currently driving a 1989 S2 with over 185,000 miles. She drinks oil like a demon but otherwise running strong. Am suspicious the car is a major undisclosed shareholder in Castrol.
Not to beat a dead horse but ...
Earlier in the thread people seemed to misunderstand what I took as the implied but nonetheless straightforward criticism of the Ferraris as daily drivers. Not that they are not serious cars for drivers. They are both great driving machines. Ferraris are just not built to handle daily driving like Porsches are.
Try depending on a Ferrari for 365 day a year driving in the Canadian climate. Minus 9 degrees Farenheit here yesterday (minus 23 Celsius). Car in the middle of an empty parking lot 20 miles from home at 10PM at night. Feeling nervous Enzo?
The car I wanted most as a kid was the 944. The car I thought was the most beautiful I had ever seen, probably would have been the mid 70s 512 Berlinnetta Boxer or the early 70s Dino. Nothing against Ferrari here, but you can get a 944 for the price of a used Tercel, put $2K in annual maintenance. Drive the bejeesus out of it through 90 degree heat and minus 30 blizzards, carry your brother's air conditioner in the hatchback and still be able to parallel park in the urban jungle.
My first 944 (a 1987 944S) gave me over 35,000 miles of service over 3 years and when it got T-boned and written off the insurance adjuster valued it at more than my original purchase price.
Currently driving a 1989 S2 with over 185,000 miles. She drinks oil like a demon but otherwise running strong. Am suspicious the car is a major undisclosed shareholder in Castrol.
01-19-2005, 10:28 AM
#53
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Originally Posted by Laust Pedersen
Ken D,
Al Burtoni is one of the very few people I would fully trust my Lambos to, but he is not inexpensive. He is also more of a traditionalist than me and since I wanted to add an engine management system (Electromotive’s TEC-1) and some extra power, I saw it more practical to do it locally (lived in Orange County, CA at the time). I had quite a few discussions (and still have) with Al and I very much admire his no-nonsense approach and huge experience and did end up buying custom made pistons from him for my Espada.
If you are further interested in the rebuild ordeal then take a look here .
Al Burtoni is one of the very few people I would fully trust my Lambos to, but he is not inexpensive. He is also more of a traditionalist than me and since I wanted to add an engine management system (Electromotive’s TEC-1) and some extra power, I saw it more practical to do it locally (lived in Orange County, CA at the time). I had quite a few discussions (and still have) with Al and I very much admire his no-nonsense approach and huge experience and did end up buying custom made pistons from him for my Espada.
If you are further interested in the rebuild ordeal then take a look here .
Nitros in the Espada? Must be a hoot. Your Jalpa is a nice piece too.
01-19-2005, 10:33 PM
#54
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Not to rehash this thing, but I've been out/off for the past 2 days...
Kevin, ya got me, bro! Talk about a fish. Again, I'd say the much better deal and bang for the buck IS a sweet 951, even if a GTO or a 328 (really, my fave of the 3 series- the updated 'Magnum PI' Ferrari) looks so damn sexy. Collectability probably plays SOME significant factor in seeing hardly any high-milage 3x8 series, but as UD and others have said, there are SCADS of high mile Carrera's out there. Just like the Energizer bunny, the keep going and going...
In a perfect world, you own them all. For the price of that 308 in the first ebay ad of this thread, I'm picking up a 951 with what; 50k, maybe 75k miles. And I'd have spare change left over to pick up a Ducati 999sp to scratch that Italian itch...
Kevin, ya got me, bro! Talk about a fish. Again, I'd say the much better deal and bang for the buck IS a sweet 951, even if a GTO or a 328 (really, my fave of the 3 series- the updated 'Magnum PI' Ferrari) looks so damn sexy. Collectability probably plays SOME significant factor in seeing hardly any high-milage 3x8 series, but as UD and others have said, there are SCADS of high mile Carrera's out there. Just like the Energizer bunny, the keep going and going...
In a perfect world, you own them all. For the price of that 308 in the first ebay ad of this thread, I'm picking up a 951 with what; 50k, maybe 75k miles. And I'd have spare change left over to pick up a Ducati 999sp to scratch that Italian itch...
07-31-2011, 10:45 AM
#55
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Al doesn't deserve your admiration, trust me.
Ken D,
Al Burtoni is one of the very few people I would fully trust my Lambos to, but he is not inexpensive. He is also more of a traditionalist than me and since I wanted to add an engine management system (Electromotive’s TEC-1) and some extra power, I saw it more practical to do it locally (lived in Orange County, CA at the time). I had quite a few discussions (and still have) with Al and I very much admire his no-nonsense approach and huge experience and did end up buying custom made pistons from him for my Espada.
If you are further interested in the rebuild ordeal then take a look here .
FSAEracer03,
My very first car was a Triumph Vitesse (as British as they get). I upped the HP by maybe 50% (from maybe 100 HP to a “huge” 150 crank HP) and it spat gear and differential teeth out like a boxer whose opponent has a horseshoe in his glove.
I was forced to screw on every nut and bolt just to keep it running. In essence I never had a chance.
Absolutely not so with the Lambo. It truly is very reliable if you find and correct the few flaws it does have. I can let it sit for months even outdoors, turn the key to let the fuel pressure build, crank the engine for a fraction of a second and it starts right up. 90k total miles and 30k miles after the rebuilt.
Laust
Al Burtoni is one of the very few people I would fully trust my Lambos to, but he is not inexpensive. He is also more of a traditionalist than me and since I wanted to add an engine management system (Electromotive’s TEC-1) and some extra power, I saw it more practical to do it locally (lived in Orange County, CA at the time). I had quite a few discussions (and still have) with Al and I very much admire his no-nonsense approach and huge experience and did end up buying custom made pistons from him for my Espada.
If you are further interested in the rebuild ordeal then take a look here .
FSAEracer03,
My very first car was a Triumph Vitesse (as British as they get). I upped the HP by maybe 50% (from maybe 100 HP to a “huge” 150 crank HP) and it spat gear and differential teeth out like a boxer whose opponent has a horseshoe in his glove.
I was forced to screw on every nut and bolt just to keep it running. In essence I never had a chance.
Absolutely not so with the Lambo. It truly is very reliable if you find and correct the few flaws it does have. I can let it sit for months even outdoors, turn the key to let the fuel pressure build, crank the engine for a fraction of a second and it starts right up. 90k total miles and 30k miles after the rebuilt.
Laust
Yes, he's a traditionalist alright. He doesn't see anything wrong with beating women. Trust me, I know one of his relatives who no longer speaks with him since he beat his ex-wife so badly. Just ask him about his family...Oh wait, no one speaks to him! I'm just saying, do your research before you look up to this guy as a businessman. I'd take my Lambo to a jiffy lube before I'd support Al's business. If all you care about is overpriced parts, he's your man. If you mind where your money goes, there are others to support.
07-31-2011, 01:36 PM
#57
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Thread is only nearly 7 YEARS old. Brian must not care for somebody. But the dude, much less any car could be long gone by now.
My one Ferrari experience was enough for me. Maybe kind of somewhat like a Porsche LOL.
07-31-2011, 03:23 PM
#58
Old thread but interesting in that some of the conceptions (true or not) still apply today. As an ownership data point, my Ferrari experiences have been very positive and are at least as positive as my Porsche experiences. Total cost wise, some of my Porsches were more expensive than each of my F cars I've owned. Bottom line, I think experiences vary depending on model and actual car.
07-31-2011, 03:29 PM
#59
Laust, and anyone else on this forum who "respects" Al Burtoni's "integrity":
Yes, he's a traditionalist alright. He doesn't see anything wrong with beating women. Trust me, I know one of his relatives who no longer speaks with him since he beat his ex-wife so badly. Just ask him about his family...Oh wait, no one speaks to him! I'm just saying, do your research before you look up to this guy as a businessman. I'd take my Lambo to a jiffy lube before I'd support Al's business. If all you care about is overpriced parts, he's your man. If you mind where your money goes, there are others to support.
Yes, he's a traditionalist alright. He doesn't see anything wrong with beating women. Trust me, I know one of his relatives who no longer speaks with him since he beat his ex-wife so badly. Just ask him about his family...Oh wait, no one speaks to him! I'm just saying, do your research before you look up to this guy as a businessman. I'd take my Lambo to a jiffy lube before I'd support Al's business. If all you care about is overpriced parts, he's your man. If you mind where your money goes, there are others to support.
07-31-2011, 04:48 PM
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But wrenching your Ferrari?
Far worse then spousal abuse lies in our own cars legacy.....
"While developing the Beetle, Porsche also made tanks and engines for the **** war machine. After the outbreak of World War II it used forced laborers in its plants in Wolfsburg, in northern Germany, as well as in the Zuffenhausen facility."
