Turbo vs Supercharger
#136
Originally Posted by nine-44
May I also remind you guys of Eddie Bello that was running 9-10ETs in a 911 that was turboed and driving it to the track and also beating turboed Hyabusas on the street. Also, I forget all the details but the reason why turbos are not allowed at NHRA was because of a toyota V8 with twin turbos kicking everyones asses in his classrunning like 7 secs or something crazy with a few thousand HP. Not too bad as technology grows considering that lag in seconds was longer than this guys ETs 20 years later. It is true that you have to plan your system around it's intended use, I hope to build it for many...AutoX, Drivers EDs, bigtrack and street. I don't plan to drag, but I'll throw that in as well. Go ahead and laugh at my crazy ideas, to you they are crazy, to me it's a challenge and I hope to tear down the walls of your imagination. I have a plan and I'll see what I can do, it could all be junk in the end, I'll do what I can on a working budget. Wish me luck
#138
Seem topical, and it Porsche Certified! I don't remember where I originally saw this posted or if it's been posted on Rennlist before. I can email anybody the slightly better original .jpgs if desired.
Uh, not 56K-safe sorry about that in advance.
Question:
Why aren't clutched superchargers used more often? It seems like it would be the best of both worlds.
Uh, not 56K-safe sorry about that in advance.
Question:
Why aren't clutched superchargers used more often? It seems like it would be the best of both worlds.
Last edited by MoonBoy; 12-04-2004 at 05:17 AM.
#141
Race Director
"Why aren't clutched superchargers used more often? It seems like it would be the best of both worlds."
Don't know.. Toyota did it on their supercharged MR2. Got a +30% increase in power and the SC was very transparent, just felt like a car with a big powerful engine. That car pretty much killed off the Fiero.
Don't know.. Toyota did it on their supercharged MR2. Got a +30% increase in power and the SC was very transparent, just felt like a car with a big powerful engine. That car pretty much killed off the Fiero.
#142
Originally Posted by Danno
"Why aren't clutched superchargers used more often? It seems like it would be the best of both worlds."
Don't know.. Toyota did it on their supercharged MR2. Got a +30% increase in power and the SC was very transparent, just felt like a car with a big powerful engine. That car pretty much killed off the Fiero.
Don't know.. Toyota did it on their supercharged MR2. Got a +30% increase in power and the SC was very transparent, just felt like a car with a big powerful engine. That car pretty much killed off the Fiero.
#144
Originally Posted by GoRideSno
Originally Posted by Z
The shape of the torque curve can be kind of misleading. First and second gear are basicaly worthless in that car if the pedal's to the floor.
In the run represented below I didn't even spin the tires. It was with drag radials, not slicks just extra sticky tires. I have also run 4.3 0-60. I have done 12.7 with street tires and another with one of my twin screw systems has run 12.5 sec 1/4th and and 4.6 0-06 without spinning the normal street tires
Originally Posted by tomboyea123
The drivability is better than ever and it will take full power from 1200 rpm in high gear with no protest and full power in 1st gear will spin the 285 30 18s from any rpm and continue into 2nd.
Originally Posted by Old & New
I did a quick jab in first (tires spin instantly), ran through second gear until tires began to spin (50mph?), then carried third gear out nearly to redline.
Originally Posted by Lagavulin
One of my favorite things to do is go 40 mph while in 2nd and quickly roll the throttle on. By the time it hits 45 mph, the tires are boiling and I’m bouncing off the rev limiter in an instant.
Originally Posted by Lagavulin
As it is right now with my car, 1st and 2nd gear at full throttle is nothing more than molten rubber, literally. 3rd gear is when I can finally step into fairly quickly without worrying too much about the back end getting loose and swinging around, as long as it's completely dry, pointed straight, and not too cold outside.
Originally Posted by Gretch
Alternatively, if (like Lag suggests) I get a rolling start, or have full clutch engagement at 1,500 to 2,000 rpms, and then put my foot in it, She will break the tires loose and spin them to the rev limiter, in both first and secong gear.
Originally Posted by Gretch
BTW, wider rubber doesn't help much when you are putting out over 500 hp. My driveway is 1/2 mile long and Gretch smoked the Hoosiers, through first and second gear. I tried it in both directions.........Driveway looks like some irresponsible punk kid lives there now..............
Originally Posted by Gretch
In second gear you better be sure it is pointed straight, because it lights up the tires at anything under 40 miles and hour, when you put your foot into it.......
And I didn't have the belt tight enough to make anymore than about 6.5 pounds.
And I didn't have the belt tight enough to make anymore than about 6.5 pounds.
#145
Originally Posted by John..
You see, all that wheelspin you refer to on the SC car....set for 12 lbs you make 12 lbs in 1st gear...you can't use it, or as you say you can't. So the CS makes too much when you don't need it and not enough when you do..
Originally Posted by John..
Look at the boost curve on those devices. Turbo probably won't make it there (and I don't need it), so off the line traction will not suffer..
Originally Posted by John..
It is called cockpit adjustable boost... You can't do that with the CS...
Originally Posted by John..
Not one of you knows anything about how easy or difficult it is to install my setup on a 928, nobody has seen the underside of the car except for me and a few friends.
Originally Posted by John..
Continue to mislead....the extra money for my top end setup will buy a full hot-wire conversion (the only one ever made for L-Jet 928 mind you) and programmable injection calibrator made to my specs. It gives crisp and fast throttle response. A lower priced example is on the way. Say, intercooled 6 lbs of boost for a small amount more than a super...it is true and I will prove it very soon.
Originally Posted by John..
Dyno sheets don't tell the whole story..
Originally Posted by John..
So on 1/2 to one pound less boost I made 20+ more HP and 50+ more ft-lbs. Read that 50 ft-lbs again, because that tells the story.
Originally Posted by John..
Whatever....as my Father used to say: "Always consider the source"
For those of you guys that are considering supercharging, I suggest doing some reading on the subject, and don't put that much faith in what somebody that's trying to sell something says without you being well informed. There are a number of books out there, but two of the better ones I've seen are "Forced Induction Performance Tuning" by A. Graham Bell, and "Supercharged! Design, Testing, and Installation of Supercharger Systems" by Corky Bell. Both were published within the last couple of years, so aren't so full of some of the outdated information that some old books are. The first book mentioned deals with the different forms of supercharging, as well as turbos, and also nitrous, rather than just supercharging like the second one does. Good luck!
#146
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Nov 2001
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I'll say this again....Z:
Carl's performance figures are for his race car, with Euro heads, camshafts and 12 psig of boost....not for the kit he offers at below $5,000. That is a fact.
My performance figures are for my car....well before I ever touched it on 8.5 lbs of boost, as it left Callaway in 1983. 4.5 heads, economy 4.5 cams, stock engine internals. An 18 year old installation. The car makes about 70 more horse now, so no telling what the performance is, but it is better....I have not remeasured the performance since the upgrade....honest.
Nobody has any data (power or performance) on my twin setup, because it has not been released, so everything you claim is BS becasue you simply don't know. I suggest you reserve comment on that one because the Callaway is getting a big fat upgrade this winter with my manifold/wastegate/turbo setup and those nice Euro cams Carl used in his race car. Wanna place your bets now on the power it will make? It is a well known fact the Euro cams add 30 NA HP on a 4.5 liter car....soon we will see what they do on the bottle feeder. Maybe we should ask Lag for help on that one because he is always right, right?
Who is misleading now Z? You seem to be such a BMOC here on the list, why not introduce yourself in Kansas? What have you to hide Z, or is that Mike? I made it very clear to all who were there what my name was and what I had to offer, no tricks no BS and no hiding under a screen name. I showed many people all about the setup...all you had to do is ask and I would have gladly displayed to you whatever you wanted to see. You don't like me Z? Frankly I really don't care, but you and others continue to mislead....that I care about. So my car had an oil leak Z, how silly you mention that...it was leaking oil when I bought it in March from Kempthorne Motors in Canton, Ohio...head gasket. It has all new seals now...the underbelly is spotless today.
Z, you talk like you know Corky Bell...do you?
Carl's performance figures are for his race car, with Euro heads, camshafts and 12 psig of boost....not for the kit he offers at below $5,000. That is a fact.
My performance figures are for my car....well before I ever touched it on 8.5 lbs of boost, as it left Callaway in 1983. 4.5 heads, economy 4.5 cams, stock engine internals. An 18 year old installation. The car makes about 70 more horse now, so no telling what the performance is, but it is better....I have not remeasured the performance since the upgrade....honest.
Nobody has any data (power or performance) on my twin setup, because it has not been released, so everything you claim is BS becasue you simply don't know. I suggest you reserve comment on that one because the Callaway is getting a big fat upgrade this winter with my manifold/wastegate/turbo setup and those nice Euro cams Carl used in his race car. Wanna place your bets now on the power it will make? It is a well known fact the Euro cams add 30 NA HP on a 4.5 liter car....soon we will see what they do on the bottle feeder. Maybe we should ask Lag for help on that one because he is always right, right?
Who is misleading now Z? You seem to be such a BMOC here on the list, why not introduce yourself in Kansas? What have you to hide Z, or is that Mike? I made it very clear to all who were there what my name was and what I had to offer, no tricks no BS and no hiding under a screen name. I showed many people all about the setup...all you had to do is ask and I would have gladly displayed to you whatever you wanted to see. You don't like me Z? Frankly I really don't care, but you and others continue to mislead....that I care about. So my car had an oil leak Z, how silly you mention that...it was leaking oil when I bought it in March from Kempthorne Motors in Canton, Ohio...head gasket. It has all new seals now...the underbelly is spotless today.
Z, you talk like you know Corky Bell...do you?
#148
Benz has one on the SLK and some C-Class models... Im looking for one myself for my S2... I think its the best route... Plus its capable of being intercooled... and all that need to be done is a injector upgrade, fab up a new accessory bracket and add a new belt with a little chip tuning i think it will add something like 50-100HP easy...