Stan944

I know there were many threads on winter tires, and you guys are probably bored with it, but:

I want to ask you about your opinion on Michelin X-Ice vs. Blizzak WS50.
I finally got some money, and want to buy a set. Keep in mind that I live near Toronto, so it gets here cold, and icy/snowy.

X-Ice seems to be a new model, and there are few reports on tirerack.com

I commute a long distance to work now, so highway driving is important.
How long the tires last, and how good they are when over 50% is worn out, is important too.

Before I moved here, I wanted to get the ultimate snow/ice grip, so Blizzak seemed to the best, but
I'll probably have only 2 autoX events on snow/ice covered lot, so I guess it doesn't matter that much.
But I want to be reasonably sure I don't crash my 944 when there is freezing rain, etc.

Finally about the size for my 15" cookie cutters (7" wide):
Both tires are offered in the standard size for my 944: 215 60R15, and also 205 65R15.
Should I go for the narrower size?, or it's almost no difference?
Which size provides better trackion on ice? I believe the narrow is better on snow, but I don't know about the ice.
Obviously the 215/60 would be better on the highway.

Chase72

Stan: I started a thread couple of weeks ago about winterizing the Porsche... there is some discussion on tires as well towards the end--you might want to check it out.
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-944-951-968-forum/168649-winterizing-tips.html

It doesn't answer your tire brand comparison question, but I urge you to take a look at sites like www.tirerack.com and see their comparison of winter performance tires.

I am considering getting Pirelli 210 Snow Sports myself, but Boston winters aren't as harsh as yours.

Good luck,
Chase

Jake951

Winter tires are generally a tradeoff in performance. The better they are in snow, the worse they tend to be on dry roads and vice versa. Blizzak owners tell me they are great in snow, but not so good on dry roads. In my area we get a fair amount of snow but 95% of the time the roads are dry (at least not covered in snow), so I'll trade a little performance in snow for dry handling. It depends on what your driving priorities are. This winter I'm using Dunlop Winter Sport M2's on my Passat. (I don't take the 951 out in snow).

Stan944

Thanks for the replies; I checked the recommended link, but it didn't answer my questions...
also tirerack has very little info on Michelin X-Ice.
Anybody has some comments regarding Michelin X-Ice ?

RMills944

Stan, is that your car in teh avitar? I like the Porsche in snow pic.

Scott at Team Harco

I think the Michelin X-Ice is a new tire for this year. That is why there is so little data to draw from. The Blizzak is pretty much a known commodity and would likely serve you well for three to four winters. The big tradeoff with Blizzaks (unless you get one of the more performance oriented models) is the dry traction and wear.

It sounds like you have similar conditions to what we get here in southeastern Michigan. Plenty of snow and cold, but the roads are cleared (or salted) relatively soon after a storm. You might be able to get away with a more performance oriented winter tire (which may be the target market for the X-Ice).

If you are willing to consider another brand of tire - I would recommend the Nokian WR. It will offer great traction and also excellent wear characteristics (year-round). Something you don't typically find in a capable winter tire.

You should have contacted me two weeks ago and I could have delivered a set to you when we passed through Toronto this past weekend.

Stan944

yep. I was on all-season tires, so that's why I did the cone, but hoping to do well this winter on dedicated winter rubber.

Stan944

Thanks Scott, I know you're an expert regarding winter tires.
well, 2 weaks ago I had $0 in my account (partially due to an unexpected clutch job), and I just received an equally unexpected overpayment check (unrelated to the clutch)!
Do you have links to tests/reviews etc. for this Nokian? I wonder how much would be shipping to Canada?
Honestly, I'm really not sure what's the best compromize for me, but I need to decide very fast, or the suppliers will run out of stock. The only thing I'm sure is that I won't be driving winter tires in the summer :-)

Scott at Team Harco

Stan,

Unfortunately, I do not have good test reports from here in North America. I did find a very good report from Sweden that showed the Hakka 4 (studded RSi) was the best winter tire they have ever tested. They gave it 5 stars (highest possible) and zero negative comments.

I will look again and see if I can find the links. The primary link is in Swedish but there was a Canadian auto forum that had the text translated to English. As I say, I will attempt to find the links and will post them here if I can find them again.

Interestingly, the Hakka Q was rated equal with two other studdless European tires (the Conti Viking Contact 3 and Gislaved Soft Frost 2). The Q is a great tire, but the RSi is supposed to be even better. The problem for you, is you also want useful life and traction on roads that are not snow and ice covered. That is where I see the Nokian WR being the best for your needs.

Let me do some hunting. I'll be back...


Ok - I'm back. Bagged it on the first try. Here is the link to the forum where the text is translated. The link to the actual report is shown very early in the first document. It doesn't specifically help you with your question about the WR - but it does give you a good idea of the relative quality and capabilities of the Nokian (Hakka) brand of tires.

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread/t-26846.html

Chase72

For info on the tire itself, check the Nokian website:
http://www.nokiantyres.com/passenger...name=NOKIAN+WR

jjjr944

Nokians!

www.nokiantires.com for North America site.
4 different levels of tire to choose from.

I run Hakka 1's (no longer available) and can run with the SUV's all day in my 2wd Audi.
True snow tire, none of that 50% junk like Bridgestone, Dunlop, etc.
Ya pay more, but you get more in return.

My .02
YMMV

Too bad what I have for sale will not fit. I've got a new set of Nokian Hakka 1's on the market in 185/65-15 on Volvo wheels that the ex left me. 2 tires still have the stickers on the tread. Oh well...
Good luck.

Matt H

jjjr944 - that 50% junk (Bridgestone) is the most sold winter tire in the world. In Japan 6-10 winter tires sold is a Bridgestone. They do quite well here in the US as well. Further, BS owns a good portion Nokian Tire. Winter tires are designed around needs. I can tell you this much, when caught in the snow today (about 3") I wished to hell I had something other than my S-03s on. You should see a 540 driving in the snow with S-03s...not a pretty picture.

LM-25s go on Friday!
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Stan944

It's getting more and more confusing :-)
I certainly don't like only 50% of the tread being ice gripping compond: thumbs down for Blizzak WS50.
The reviews are a bit hard to read, especially that most of the tires mentioned are hard to get here.
Based on the company data, Nokian WR and Nokian Hakkapeliitta seem to be very good, but I didn't manage to get enough info to accept/reject it for my needs.
Anyways, how much are those Nokians in sizes 205/65R15 or 215/60R15 ?
cheers, Stan

Operator

i too am looking for some winter tires
heres the question

the "performance" winter tires (tires which are supposedly to work better in dry) are about double the price of the "winter only" tires on tirerack
tires like the blizzak lm22 and lm25 are in the 150 dollar range
tires like the blizzak ws50 are ~80 dollars

i would have thought that the snow only would be more expensive afer what everyone has been saying about that magic snow traction material in the tire but apparently making a tire with both materials is more expensive. anyway.. for someone who lives in the northeast.. and will mostly not be driving through thick snow.. but might be getting caught in a snowstorm every now and again, which is the better choice? the "performance" snow tire? too bad they're so damned expensive!

Chase72

Simon: I'm facing that challenge too! We get the occassional walloping in Boston, but most of the time, the plows come through and it's just some black ice and snow patches you need to worry about. I ski, so I have snow tires on my other car (BMW 323) for trips up to Vermont/Maine. On that car, I use Nokian Hakkapellita 2's for the extra grip. A friend of mine who drives his M3 all winter swears by the Dunlop Winter Sport M3's... I haven't figured out what I'm putting on the Porsche--there are also Pirelli Snow Sport 210s available, but they are about the same price range as the Blizzaks... tough choice...