winter tires
11-26-2004, 01:33 AM
#16
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I am trying some tire other than a Hakki for the first time. On my Series I early 1985 944, I picked up some of the new Winterforce 195/65-15 for my ATS cookie cutters. The Porsche owners manual calls for snow tires in 185/70-15 size, but that is just to squirly on the dry for my tastes, and needing as skinny a tire as possible here in Vermont I opted for the 195s. I also tried them non-studded (studding is available) because I've got an 8Q LSD gearbox in it. My last 944 had a QM gearbox (non-LSD) and I used Hakki 1s with studs. This worked well in the ice and snow but wasn't really fun in the dry. Noisey and loose. Hopefully this new combo should turn out well.
After taking off my 225/50-15 7&8 Fuchs and then putting these on there is a big enough difference in handling, (obviously...) the rear likes to hang it's tail out now! What amazed me is that these tires are off brand no name and totally affordable. But, made in Brazil by Bridgestone. They are kinda like a cross between Blizzaks and Hakkis, very unique and I'm impressed. Seem to work well so far in the dry. I'll keep everyone posted as to how they work as the weather turns nastier up here in Northern Vermont and when and if I go ice racing.
Here's some shots...
http://www.thompsonsmithdesign.com/i...4/DSCF2101.JPG
http://www.thompsonsmithdesign.com/i...4/DSCF2102.JPG
http://www.thompsonsmithdesign.com/i...4/DSCF2106.JPG
BTW, I was at Vermont SportsCar yesterday and they must of had at least four sets of rallye Michelin ice tires mounted up for the gruppe N WRX STis they run. What a kewl tire that is.
After taking off my 225/50-15 7&8 Fuchs and then putting these on there is a big enough difference in handling, (obviously...) the rear likes to hang it's tail out now! What amazed me is that these tires are off brand no name and totally affordable. But, made in Brazil by Bridgestone. They are kinda like a cross between Blizzaks and Hakkis, very unique and I'm impressed. Seem to work well so far in the dry. I'll keep everyone posted as to how they work as the weather turns nastier up here in Northern Vermont and when and if I go ice racing.
Here's some shots...
http://www.thompsonsmithdesign.com/i...4/DSCF2101.JPG
http://www.thompsonsmithdesign.com/i...4/DSCF2102.JPG
http://www.thompsonsmithdesign.com/i...4/DSCF2106.JPG
BTW, I was at Vermont SportsCar yesterday and they must of had at least four sets of rallye Michelin ice tires mounted up for the gruppe N WRX STis they run. What a kewl tire that is.
11-26-2004, 07:43 AM
#17
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Originally Posted by Matt H
jjjr944 - that 50% junk (Bridgestone) is the most sold winter tire in the world. In Japan 6-10 winter tires sold is a Bridgestone. They do quite well here in the US as well. Further, BS owns a good portion Nokian Tire. Winter tires are designed around needs.
Sorry Matt. To clarify.....when i said "that" 50% junk, I meant the tire engineeering and design philosophy of the Blizzak, Graspix, X-ice, etc, where I believe 60% of the tread depth (I said 50% to be sarcastic) is special silica impregnated rubber compound and the remainder is not, thus, in the mfgr's words, creating a snow tire for a great part of the tire's life and someting comparable to a good all-season tire for the remainder. Some may think it's a good idea, I personally do not. Kinda like those damn VCR and DVD players combined in one machine. Do one thing and do it well.
I like true snow tires, and my Hakka's have served me well and have fit my needs. Like everyone else, I'm open to better tires or reviews that may make me buy something else in the future. And that's why it's great to have ya around....
11-26-2004, 10:38 AM
#18
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Jerry, I agree - Hakki's are good all the way down to the core! Hopefully these 'new' Winterforce (aka Brazilian built Bridgys) will be the same.
What we Vermonters do up here for ice racing is to get very used Michelin gravel spec rallye tires and make them into super studded ice racing beasts. Since SCCA rallye central is here (Vermont SportsCar and John Buffum's shop) there are always a good supply of used ones around. When you drop four of these super studded tires onto an Audi quattro 4000 turbo with 320hp even the WRX STi guys have a hard time keeping up. They usally are dropped jawed that a 18 year old Audi can whip their *****. Go Neckarsulm boys!
Anyway, when I was at Libra Racing discussing my painting plans with the boys, they were intrigued with my Porsche 944. So much so, that they might all switch over to 944 8v'ers this ice racing season, or at least try them. 50/50 weight distribution, RWD throttle steer, limited slip gearboxes, familiar Audi'ness build quality and steering to drool over- 944's might be the next hot unit.
Check out the FTD 320hp Audi 4000CS quattro turbo from this year's (Jan04) ice racing out on Lake Champlain >>>
http://www.thompsonsmithdesign.com/m...i90quattro.mov
What we Vermonters do up here for ice racing is to get very used Michelin gravel spec rallye tires and make them into super studded ice racing beasts. Since SCCA rallye central is here (Vermont SportsCar and John Buffum's shop) there are always a good supply of used ones around. When you drop four of these super studded tires onto an Audi quattro 4000 turbo with 320hp even the WRX STi guys have a hard time keeping up. They usally are dropped jawed that a 18 year old Audi can whip their *****. Go Neckarsulm boys!
Anyway, when I was at Libra Racing discussing my painting plans with the boys, they were intrigued with my Porsche 944. So much so, that they might all switch over to 944 8v'ers this ice racing season, or at least try them. 50/50 weight distribution, RWD throttle steer, limited slip gearboxes, familiar Audi'ness build quality and steering to drool over- 944's might be the next hot unit.
Check out the FTD 320hp Audi 4000CS quattro turbo from this year's (Jan04) ice racing out on Lake Champlain >>>
http://www.thompsonsmithdesign.com/m...i90quattro.mov
11-26-2004, 12:33 PM
#19
Just a car guy
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Originally Posted by Stan944
It's getting more and more confusing :-)
I certainly don't like only 50% of the tread being ice gripping compond: thumbs down for Blizzak WS50.
The reviews are a bit hard to read, especially that most of the tires mentioned are hard to get here.
Based on the company data, Nokian WR and Nokian Hakkapeliitta seem to be very good, but I didn't manage to get enough info to accept/reject it for my needs.
Anyways, how much are those Nokians in sizes 205/65R15 or 215/60R15 ?
cheers, Stan
I certainly don't like only 50% of the tread being ice gripping compond: thumbs down for Blizzak WS50.
The reviews are a bit hard to read, especially that most of the tires mentioned are hard to get here.
Based on the company data, Nokian WR and Nokian Hakkapeliitta seem to be very good, but I didn't manage to get enough info to accept/reject it for my needs.
Anyways, how much are those Nokians in sizes 205/65R15 or 215/60R15 ?
cheers, Stan
I don't have a listing for a tire in 215/60R15. However, I do have prices for the other size (all prices $US (FOB Waterford, Michigan))
205/65R15 Nokian WR - $109
205/60R15 Nokian WR - $116
195/65R15 Nokian WR - $103
205/65R15 Hakka 2 - $111
205/60R15 Hakka 2 - $122
195/65R15 Hakka 2 - $104
205/65R15 Hakka RSi - $113
205/60R15 Hakka RSi - $110
195/65R15 Hakka RSi - $104
If you guys in Vermont see Lance Smith or Buffum - tell them I (Scott Harvey, Jr.) say "Hi". (Just had a nice chat with JB at Tall Pines last weekend).
11-26-2004, 01:02 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
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Thanks guys,
Thanks Scott. Altough these prices are reasonable and the product value is high, after the exchange rate, shipping, etc. it's a bit too high for me now.
I decided to try Michelin X-Ice. I'll post my comments later into the season if someone asks, etc.
I actually know now why there was no comments here on those Michelins, as they are not only a new model, but marketed only in Canada, and there aren't too many Rennlisters in Canada. There aren't too many people in Canada, period, :-)
Thanks Scott. Altough these prices are reasonable and the product value is high, after the exchange rate, shipping, etc. it's a bit too high for me now.
I decided to try Michelin X-Ice. I'll post my comments later into the season if someone asks, etc.
I actually know now why there was no comments here on those Michelins, as they are not only a new model, but marketed only in Canada, and there aren't too many Rennlisters in Canada. There aren't too many people in Canada, period, :-)
11-26-2004, 02:43 PM
#21
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Scott,
Will do. I live about 12 miles from both shops and will have my 944 at Libra Racing for repaint this next month. I'll see JB on a daily basis until my Christmas present is done.
Will do. I live about 12 miles from both shops and will have my 944 at Libra Racing for repaint this next month. I'll see JB on a daily basis until my Christmas present is done.
11-26-2004, 02:47 PM
#22
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Scott,
BTW, (sorry this is OT..) but I designed Lance's corporate image back in 1996. The "Vermont SportsCar rallying" look. I think it really boosted the whole SCCA Pro Rally scene, then Subaru came along, then Mitsu, etc. Also, illustrated a limited edition print signed by JB in his Audi S2 winning the 1995 Caminos del Incas Rallye of Peru.
BTW, (sorry this is OT..) but I designed Lance's corporate image back in 1996. The "Vermont SportsCar rallying" look. I think it really boosted the whole SCCA Pro Rally scene, then Subaru came along, then Mitsu, etc. Also, illustrated a limited edition print signed by JB in his Audi S2 winning the 1995 Caminos del Incas Rallye of Peru.
