wombat7

For all you SCCA Stock autoX guys... I was wondering what kind of suspension adjustmetns you've made. I'm not worried about being nationally competitive or anything, but I would like to be regionally competitive since usually its only myself and a guy in a Fiero. I'm sick of getting beaten by a FIERO!! lol... right now i'm just running my yoko street tires and I'm in the process of trying to find a cheap set of rims to mount my slightly used hoosiers on. That should make up some of the time... but not all of it. He usually beats me by about 2 seconds. Right now i'm running max camber up front, but what about in the rear?? any toe adjustments or anything??

Since my season is now over, I thought I would try to get my suspension set right so that I can be even more competitive in the spring.

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

Chad

keith

Chad - if you aren't running LSD, limit your rear camber to -1.25 deg, put the front at around -1.75 - -2.0. Chalk your tires to get proper pressures. Replace your struts/shocks if they are worn, and don't slam your car as too low is bad in autoX.

Past that, get someone experienced to ride with you to watch your braking, turn-in, etc. I find trail braking the 951 for rotation helps a bunch, might very well be different for the n/a.

wombat7

I have LSD... so that's different.... I would like to have a fellow 944/951 driver ride with me, but none of the indy area guys come to the regional SCCA stuff. I've honestly NEVER seen one of them at an autoX. I've had my friend who races an turbo RX-7 ride with me and i've ridden with him and that's helped a lot, but i would like to see how another 944 driver does it.

Techno Duck

wombat, have you upgraded the sway bars on your car yet? I have heard swapping to the 951/S2 sway bars on n/a 944's does wonders for the handling characteristics. Ill be doing this mod this weekend on my '87 944. Stock front and no rear bar. Should be a big difference with the turbo sways.

wombat7

I haven't upgraded my sway bars yet, but unless they were an option for an 84, then it would bump me out of a stock class. I want to stay stock because if I do sway bars or anything like that I would get slaughtered CSP

GUMBALL

To set up your car for an autocross or a very short road course, I would suggest the following settings:
ft camber, 3 to 3 1/2 degrees negative
ft caster, as much as the car will give you (make sure settings are equal side-to-side)
ft toe, 1/8 to 3/8 (total) toe OUT (this will kill the corner entry understeer)
re camber, 2-3 degrees negative
re toe, 1/8 to 1/4 (total) toe in

monitor after each run with tire pressure and pyrometer, and adjust from there

Have fun.....

Z-man

wombat: good idea - stay stock. CSP there's virtually no limit to what you can do with your suspension, and then it's the CAR not the driver that gets the fastest in class!

Is Mr. Fiero running on street rubber or R-compounds? The Fiero, believe it or not, is a very formidable autox car, given it's mid-engine layout and decent suspension. Tire pressures are important, but don't go crazy there - set your tires to a certain pressure, and if it feels good - keep them there! I've seen too many folks 'micro adjusting' them throughout the day - problem with that is that you can't develop a consistent feel to the car - everytime you go out there, it handles different!

Also: if you are tuning your car, adjust only one component at a time - if you adjust everything at once, and the car handles poorly, you won't know what to change back!

The best improvement you can make is the driver - get more seat time. After that, a good alignment is worth its weight in gold. A set of racing harnesses will also help you, since you'll be more attached to the car, and not fighting the g-forces as much.

Again, the biggest bang for your buck is seat time.
-Z-man, certified autox junkie.

wombat7

Thanks Z-Man... The guy in the Fiero is running Falken Azenis. I figured the fiero was a pretty formidable autoX car since he is usually top 20 times overall and top 10 PAX. I'm gonna get an alignment when i get my new street tires. When I adjusted the camber it seemed to handle a lot better, but the rear end was still a little loose. Someone said in another post that I should adjust the toe angle in the rear and that should be the best setup i can have. Any ideas about the toe?? What exactly would adjusting the toe angle in the rear do??

M758

Rear toe does play a strong role in stability under braking. For racing conditions you want a little toe-in to keep the back end stable. Geometry and suspension loads cause the rear to toe-out naturaly under braking.

Autocross is different animal however as you need and can tolerate more instability. So you may actually want a little less toe in the rear. That said it may make the car fast, but difficult to handle.

wombat7

Wow guys thanks a lot... keep the info coming!!

Now another question has come up for me... The camber is easy to adjust if you have the right thing to measure it since it is only one bolt to turn on either side. How easy is the other stuff to adjust. Would I have to run it like that all the time or is that something I could do in the paddock at the autoX venue??

M758

Ahh... adjusting camber changes toe too... (both front and rear...)

who1

Have you run into Clemens Berger yet? I think he's running some formula car now in the Indy region. He used to kill everyone in his MR2. Before his MR2 he had a 944n/a. I'd have him ride with you and give you some pointers. Go to the autox school down in Columbus, IN in the spring. He's usually instructing down there. Those Fieros are tough. They just have an intrinsic advantage being mid-engine, etc. You might be fighting un uphill battle all other things being equal.

wombat7

Yeah I know Clemens. He actually graduated from Rose-Hulman where I go to school. He hasnt' been racing much this summer, that I've seen. I plan on going to the school this summer. I never thought about having Clemens ride with me. Hopefully in the spring we will run in the same group. Usually around here they run the stock classes together and the mod and prepared classes together. We'll see though... He would be a good person to have ride with me...

who1

I'm a Rose grad, too. Class of '92. BSEE. I've done a few autoxes over the past few years. I didn't attend any this year, but would like to get back into it a little next year. The autox school that the Columbus region puts on is pretty good. A good bit of seat time on Saturday, then they have the real autox on Sunday. Clemens rode with me once when I attended the school. I can't go on Sundays, so my participation is kind of limited. I've only taken my 944 out once. Before that, I was driving my 4000 in HS, which was slow. I wasn't too fast in my 944 either. Oh, well. They don't pay me to be fast.

TheRealLefty

Wombat,

The hot tip in and around the Chesapeake Region for 944 autoX set up includes making sure you don't get the nose too stiff. In rear drive, front engine cars, stiffening one end of the car creates grip at the other end. Soooo, if the car pushes, you the rear stiffer, not the front, and vice versa.

I run in the top 20 among 100 car fields in an 85.5 NA with fresh Koni's, 1" drop in overall ride height, M030 968 19 mm bar in tne back on middle setting, OE 23.5 mm front bar with fresh rubber bushings, 200# Weltmeister springs, KLA front strut brace, spherical bearing rear drop links and 225/45/15 Hoosier RS304's on 15 x 8 Fuchs all around. I don't have LSD (wish I did) and run negative 2.5 camber all around. Slight front toe-in, rear toe at 0, probably would be a little better with slight toe-in in rear, too.

I usually run 50% front shock stiffness (externally adjustable) and 70% rear shock setting (not easily adjustable). Depending on the course and the way the day is going, I can tweak front shock setting to induce a little push with softer settings making it push less. I usual start with something like 34 lbs tire pressure all around, let the heat take them up to 36 and bleed a little out of the rears (2 lbs max) if I want the tail come around faster.

The other advice offered here is good. Seat time more important than demon tweaks. Extreme mods tend to disrupt the car's natural balance including excessive lowering. Shock/spring relationship important. If you try and get stiffness with the shock only, the car will start bouncing and porpoise motions if the springs are not adequately stiff.

Also remember the limit of your mods in the front is really the back. IMO, anything much more than 250# front springs and you'll end up needing either coil over helpers or new torsion bars in the back.
I'm in CSP and run competitively on a club basis with the Miatas, MR2's and a couple of well driven 914 2.0 cars. On a regional basis, the good Miatas in the Steel Cities Region title chase are usually 2.5 seconds faster than me.