My 951 for sale - $1,000,000 (or Best Offer)
#46
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Erik - Sorry - me dummy not get joke
The Dino was Ferrari's best-selling model of all time when production had ended. It was the "ubiquitous" (sp?) Ferrari of the 70s, the one that everyone instantly recognized as a Ferrari. The 308/328 series surpassed the 206/246 series in sales, and became the "ubiquitous" ferrari, universally recognizable. At the end of production, it was their best seller ever. The 348/355 series, at its close, surpassed the 308/328 as the best seller ever (total production). They are still, however, depreciating in value. The 308 series is around rock bottom right now.
Like every Ferrari before, Ferraris that are presently 25-30 years old will increase significantly in value when they are 35-40 years old. All of these cars go through a stage where "nobody wants them". A car does not need to be worth what it cost new (in actual dollars) to be an investment; it just has to recover from the "nobody wants one" phase of its life cycle without being molested or neglected.
I have witnessed early Esprit prices climb in the five years I have owned mine. From 1997-1999, the highest price that any example was advertised for was $11,000. I bought mine for $9000. In the last 2 years, several in lesser condition than mine sold for $14,000-15,000. The $9000 cars today all need something. Five years ago, people buying NA Esprits were people who couldn't afford Turbo Esprits. Today, NA (S1/S2) cars are significantly closer in price to early Turbos - sometimes on a par. The people buying NA Esprits now are no longer people who really want the newest fastest one but this is all they can afford. And this is far rarer a car than a Dino . . . (...and no, I don't expect to or care about making money on mine... I bought it to drive!)
I never expect a NA 944 to be worth a lot of money, but 944s are still in the stage where people are buying them because it is a Porsche they can afford, and they try to update them to make them look newer or drive faster (this forum is great evidence of which). The current crop of 944 owners are still chasing wanting a newer, faster Porsche. In 10 years, the people who will want 944s will want them because they "remember them" or "always liked them", will have money for a faster car (like a Toyota Camry or a 2000 Boxster), and will be buying 944s for what they are, not what they wish they could have.
The Dino was Ferrari's best-selling model of all time when production had ended. It was the "ubiquitous" (sp?) Ferrari of the 70s, the one that everyone instantly recognized as a Ferrari. The 308/328 series surpassed the 206/246 series in sales, and became the "ubiquitous" ferrari, universally recognizable. At the end of production, it was their best seller ever. The 348/355 series, at its close, surpassed the 308/328 as the best seller ever (total production). They are still, however, depreciating in value. The 308 series is around rock bottom right now.
Like every Ferrari before, Ferraris that are presently 25-30 years old will increase significantly in value when they are 35-40 years old. All of these cars go through a stage where "nobody wants them". A car does not need to be worth what it cost new (in actual dollars) to be an investment; it just has to recover from the "nobody wants one" phase of its life cycle without being molested or neglected.
I have witnessed early Esprit prices climb in the five years I have owned mine. From 1997-1999, the highest price that any example was advertised for was $11,000. I bought mine for $9000. In the last 2 years, several in lesser condition than mine sold for $14,000-15,000. The $9000 cars today all need something. Five years ago, people buying NA Esprits were people who couldn't afford Turbo Esprits. Today, NA (S1/S2) cars are significantly closer in price to early Turbos - sometimes on a par. The people buying NA Esprits now are no longer people who really want the newest fastest one but this is all they can afford. And this is far rarer a car than a Dino . . . (...and no, I don't expect to or care about making money on mine... I bought it to drive!)
I never expect a NA 944 to be worth a lot of money, but 944s are still in the stage where people are buying them because it is a Porsche they can afford, and they try to update them to make them look newer or drive faster (this forum is great evidence of which). The current crop of 944 owners are still chasing wanting a newer, faster Porsche. In 10 years, the people who will want 944s will want them because they "remember them" or "always liked them", will have money for a faster car (like a Toyota Camry or a 2000 Boxster), and will be buying 944s for what they are, not what they wish they could have.
#47
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a $4k 944 being worth $8k in 15 years is not exactly an increase in value, Inflation will probably move at that rate.
If I sell the Firebird Convertible I bought 28 years ago for $300 for $20,000 I would be losing money. Not only will I not get the over $20,000 I have into the car out, I will have lost the opportunity cost of the money.
I know it is hard to deal with but these cars have virtually no value now (I have passed on numerous 500 dollar cars) and there is no reason to believe they are going to gain at a pace any greater than inflation.
Yuppies don't get nostalgic, that goes against what it means to be a yuppie
Bottom line: They'll go up modestly some day, but none of us are sitting on a retirement fund. All cars cost plenty of money to own and operate and are, therefore, generally poor investment vehicles on a discounted cash flow basis. However, as rational consumers, we spend the money anyway because: a.) transporation has value and b.) we get emotional benefits from owning our cars. The beauty of the 944 is that you can obtain a and b while tying up little capital and experiencing negligible depreciation, at worst.
#48
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Jesus people, can't anyone take a joke? Didn't anyone have the t-shirt that said "Die yuppie scum die" back in the 80's? I did.
#50
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Logic? What kind of jokes do you tell? Mathmatical one's?
The whole idea of being a Yuppie back in the 80's was a back stabing, dog eat dog view (remember the "me" era of the 80's) so in that frame of mind, they are always wanting the best, newest, latest and greatest stuff out there - not a 20+ year old sports car that has dropped $30k in value. So, there was my logic for that comment.
The whole idea of being a Yuppie back in the 80's was a back stabing, dog eat dog view (remember the "me" era of the 80's) so in that frame of mind, they are always wanting the best, newest, latest and greatest stuff out there - not a 20+ year old sports car that has dropped $30k in value. So, there was my logic for that comment.
#51
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I don't think anyone on here has delusions of 944s being worth their sticker price in 15-20 years.... I'm wondering if this routine price discussion does not stem more from different relative value of money among people on here. For, say, a college student eating Ramen noodles so he can save for a clutch kit, $4000 is a lot of money; For the established 30-something with good job, house, etc., and several cars, $4000 is still money, but not that big of a deal - definitely not investment material. To some, the 944 is "doubling in value"; others see just an incremental increase in actual dollars.
#53
Originally Posted by Serge944
Hmm...gotta love generalizations. Frankly, I maintain her better than most adults, while not even spending 1/4 of the cost. Keep wishing though; maybe my cars death will bring more value to yours.
As for all the comments on the Value of the 2.5 liter 16 valve 944, it will be verrrry interesting to see how things turn out in the coming years.
#54
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Erik, no worries. As for logic, though, it relates to the arguments employed in the thread. As above, it won't be the yuppies buying these cars. I'm not sure who suggested that, but yuppies have already been there, done that, and aren't likely to want to do it again. As for the "me" decade, that was officially the 70's. The 80's were the "go-go" decade.
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Originally Posted by KLR
Erik, no worries. As for logic, though, it relates to the arguments employed in the thread.
Ok, I have some motivtion ----->
#56
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different things also determine the value of a car...
i had a 69 firebird- though it was not the finest example of a bird, it was worth alittle more than some of the others.- 1969 was the only year for that particular body style. 67-68 were a different car/different ignition switch/fenders/quarters/lights/etc.... This makes that one year worth more. HAd it been a trans am, it would be worth almost twice that.
The 89 turbo s- id say this car would be worth more and more as the years progress due to limited production AND desirablilty. The n/a will be worth more and more as less become available and prices go up, but never a shocking amt expt maybe the no milage showroom car thats been stashed for years.
ONe thing ive always seen is that a car is only worth what someone will pay for it.
i had a 69 firebird- though it was not the finest example of a bird, it was worth alittle more than some of the others.- 1969 was the only year for that particular body style. 67-68 were a different car/different ignition switch/fenders/quarters/lights/etc.... This makes that one year worth more. HAd it been a trans am, it would be worth almost twice that.
The 89 turbo s- id say this car would be worth more and more as the years progress due to limited production AND desirablilty. The n/a will be worth more and more as less become available and prices go up, but never a shocking amt expt maybe the no milage showroom car thats been stashed for years.
ONe thing ive always seen is that a car is only worth what someone will pay for it.
#57
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Originally Posted by KLR
To me, the real deal that matters is that I've got a car that won't depreciate any further, costs a manageable amount to maintain, is a hoot to drive, show and own.
I never buy a car thinking that it will appreciate, if it does then that's just an unexpected bonus.
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Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr
Logic? What kind of jokes do you tell? Mathmatical one's?
The whole idea of being a Yuppie back in the 80's was a back stabing, dog eat dog view (remember the "me" era of the 80's) so in that frame of mind, they are always wanting the best, newest, latest and greatest stuff out there - not a 20+ year old sports car that has dropped $30k in value. So, there was my logic for that comment.
The whole idea of being a Yuppie back in the 80's was a back stabing, dog eat dog view (remember the "me" era of the 80's) so in that frame of mind, they are always wanting the best, newest, latest and greatest stuff out there - not a 20+ year old sports car that has dropped $30k in value. So, there was my logic for that comment.
#59
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Originally Posted by TarHeel 944S
I'll have to chime in and say I'm right with you Serge. Absolutely nothing goes unrepaired/unmaintained/unclean on my car. However I can't say that random kids my age aren't buying these cars and trashing them, because I know for a fact that they are.
As for all the comments on the Value of the 2.5 liter 16 valve 944, it will be verrrry interesting to see how things turn out in the coming years.
As for all the comments on the Value of the 2.5 liter 16 valve 944, it will be verrrry interesting to see how things turn out in the coming years.
As for the 944 S...i doubt theyll really gain in value, since there will be cheaper alternatives (a la 951 or even the s2) which i doubt many would pass up. Even if excellence says theyre worth "15k," the market will be small and hardly anyone would sell for the asking price.
#60
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Originally Posted by Tom R.
Dude, are you rewriting history? It wasnt like that when I was living in Greenwich Village in the 80s.
Let's drop it, bad attempt at being funny is getting way to serious.