GlenL

I've done the research and just need to ask anyways...

I've got an '87 944 8v N/A with neglected and, I think, bone stock suspension. Looking to upgrade for DE fun next Spring.

I've got to charm the $$$ from my spouse (maybe I should answer some email) and it needs to cover the DE 928 too so I gotta make the greenbacks stretch. Gonna be out there with my (by then) 18yo son who'll be piloting the 944. (Showing grades and behavior I only dreamed of!) And on to it:

Going to use some S4 flat dish wheels in 7" and 8" by 16. Likely with Kumho Victoracers.

Thinking on how to make the suspension better. Car does a big nose dip on braking and downshifts so plenty of opportunity for stiffening.

I'm planning to go with Turbo sway bar in front and 250 lb springs. The corners don't bounce when tested but I think the struts might be bad. (above) Looked at some options for this and am thinking adjustable height and Koni shocks. But the $$$ is not real attractive, especially when the backs are in need.

The plan for the backs is matching shocks to the struts and going to 29mm torsion bars. Maybe a bigger sway bar, too. I'd like to do with coil-overs but the $$$ looks severe.

Point questions:

What will tell me about suspension options? Pretty dirty and no option decals found.

Do '86 N/A cars ever get upgraded suspensions at the factory?

Can I fit M030 struts to the stock knuckles? What are the options here? Koni insterts and the adjustable ride height adjustment mods?

How can the back be stiffened most cheaply and easily? Torsion bars look economical but a giant PITA to install and adjust. Is there a cheap (<$300) coil-over option for these?

Open to suggestions!

Thanks.

Serge944

There are no "cheap" rear coil overs. The torsion bars are the cheapest and most effective way to go.

To be honest with you, if you buy a 22mm rear weltmesiter bar (only $250 at paragon), it will balance out the 250# and turbo front bar. Its very good, and im planning to buy one for myself when im ready for 250# fronts. You wont necessarily have to upgrade the torsion bars. If you still understeer a bit, just stiffen the koni's in the rear a bit.

I have a 25.5mm front swaybar from a 86 951 and it can be yours for 50 shipped (includes center mounts and bushings).

GlenL

Serge, That's an interesting idea: use rear sway bar to balance fronts instead of a torsion bar upgrade. Also considering the swaybar.

Matt

Forget the idea that you can balance out 250# front springs with a stiffer rear swaybar, unless it's a street-only car (where none of this matters anyway). There are lots of good reasons why it doesn't work. Out of curiosity I tried it as a stopgap measure before I had the time to install the 29mm torsion bars. It helped a little, but the car still handled like crap.

Matt

Matt

BTW, stiffening rear Konis may create the illusion of improving the handling, but what you'd be doing is actually decreasing rear tire grip to match the front grip you've already thrown away. Koni orange and yellow shocks are adjustable in rebound only, adjusting them doesn't "stiffen" the suspension, it just changes the rate at which the car regains ride height after the shock is compressed.

The only way to significantly increase roll resistance in a way that helps, and doesn't hurt, overall grip is with stiffer springs/torsion bars. Shocks are secondary, their job is only to properly damp the springs. The job of swaybars is to add some *some* roll resistance, not a lot as compared to the springs/torsion bars. Their most useful role is for fine tuning the oversteer/understeer balance of the car.

Serge944

Well, xsboost's 944 oversteered like crazy with his 19mm rear bar on stiffest setting and 200# front springs. He keept it on the lowest setting and it was fairly balanced. With a 22 mm welt bar (think polygraphite bushings and rod end droplinks too), the rear will be quite "stiff." I think it would balance out the 250#...the 220# for sure.

I know nothing about suspension when it comes out to all out race applications. But i do now that softer springs and the biggest sway bars is the ideal street "performance" setup. (you dont want your shocks too hard either) This is all because youll find the car hoping over bumps instead of absorbing them. It is VERY scary when your car hops in the middle of a turn. You get a similar feeling when you go over the lane reflectors in a sharp corner. Hair-raising.

GlenL

Got the wheels off today to take an inventory of what's there. Answer is the base 944 N/A for the year.

21.5mm front sway bar.
Black shocks front and back (might have been painted)
No rear sway bar at all.

Would have bought it anyways. Just too cheap to pass up.

Any advice on the best way to get height adjustment on the fronts?

Serge, maybe one thing is going for me: there ae no lane reflectors in Minnesota. The snowplows would just scrape them all off!

Serge944

Yeehaw! Lol

tifosiman

There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that you can "balance out" 250lb front springs with a rear sway bar. The sway bar does not perform the same function as a torsion bar or rear coilovers. Please, stick to what you know as being fact when you give advice out on this forum. Thanks.

joseph mitro

same setup my stock S had. black shocks are likely sachs.

the cheapest way to get height adjustment is to install paragon's ARHK but then you'd have to change out the springs, too. for the rear, it's either bigger torsion bars or rear coilover. the torsion bar would probably be cheapest if you do the swapping work yourself. just make sure your shocks/struts are new.

BTW - i bought the 19mm rear sway bar new, and purchased the sway bar mounting brackets used from Oklahoma Foreign for about $40 i think

Mongo

I'm running 220 lb springs, 19mm 968 M030 rear sway bar and a 26.8mm front off a 944 S2 (M030 for 1987 year) with KYB shocks and my car is stiff enough to shake a child's baby set of teeth out of it's mouth on some certain bumpy roads. But, damn does it corner! Almost like god is reaching out of heaven and playing with my 944 like a Hot Wheels

Serge944

Thank god you know. Otherwise this poor person might have been mislead! I made a conclusion based on facts, since when is that not allowed?

Sway bar doesn't perform the same function? Last i heard was that every part of the suspension has one goal: keeping the tires planted. Maybe the guys at Promotion dont know what theyre doing either? Theyre currently building a 951 with a 30mm front, 250# springs // 22mm rear bar, stock torsion bars (koni adj. on all 4 corners). Maybe i should email them telling them they dont know anything.

Whats VERY ironic is that many people who give "good" advice have their cars on jack stands. Im not going to bother naming them.

pete944

I currently have 200 lb. coilovers on Koni yellows with the stock S2 front sway and a 968 M030 rear sway set full stiff. For street use it's adequate but if the car were to be seriously tracked, I would soften the rear sway and increase the torsion bar spring rate.
What I'm saying is, I agree with Tifo. I can't remember seeing his car on jackstands either. He's usually on an auto-x course somewhere.

Mongo

here's a proven fact, set your car up according to your driving habits. Every car is different as is every driver behind the wheel. you think every single Porsche GT3RS is running the same suspension settings in Grand Am, ALMS and Le Mans GT class category? nope, your car setup depends on your driving. remember that.

tifosiman

Good thing you aren't talking about me then, since my car is not on jackstands.

Listen. Let's just get to the meat of this issue. You don't know what you are talking about. It is a fact that a 19mm rear sway is not going to balance out 250lb or 220lb front springs.

It may be fine on the street for casual driving. But the moment you push it hard (like at an autocross), you are going to find yourself in an understeer situation.

Have you actually put your advice to the test yourself? In a race or autocross situation?

Frankly, I could give a ratt's bunghole about what Promotion is doing. All I know is the facts, and that's what I am trying to give out here. Proven facts.

How old are you? How long have you been doing this? Ever race professionally? Done a DE?

If you don't like it when someone calls you out on your lack of knowlege, it would be best then if you kept your conjecture to yourself in the future.