for phil0168 - in car
10-07-2004, 01:11 PM
#1
for phil0168 - in car
hi,
read one of your posts, and wanted to get your input /advice.
so, firstly, pls go to my site, look at my ongoing project
www.playback.demon.co.uk
porsche, projects, ice, give us your POV pls ?
ok car is s2 cab,
at the present the plan is
1>have retrimmed the doors (colour change)
2> replaced the 6x4 with a polk
3> fitting the 2 way speaker box into the armrest area (not using the tweeter)
4> both items are/will be driven from the head unit.
5> re-run a new set of OFC cable for the 2 spkr box
ok the 2 way speaker, box in armrest, am interested in your views on
fitting of foam and where (box fits up to doorcard
foam behind the 6x4 ??
dynamat on the doors,,, where ???
I am going to replace the wethershild strip anyway, so do I fit the new wethershild then dynomat over it ? or dynomay physucally on the inside of the door skin ???
oh and anyother tips on the whole concept or just this part pls
read one of your posts, and wanted to get your input /advice.
so, firstly, pls go to my site, look at my ongoing project
www.playback.demon.co.uk
porsche, projects, ice, give us your POV pls ?
ok car is s2 cab,
at the present the plan is
1>have retrimmed the doors (colour change)
2> replaced the 6x4 with a polk
3> fitting the 2 way speaker box into the armrest area (not using the tweeter)
4> both items are/will be driven from the head unit.
5> re-run a new set of OFC cable for the 2 spkr box
ok the 2 way speaker, box in armrest, am interested in your views on
fitting of foam and where (box fits up to doorcard
foam behind the 6x4 ??
dynamat on the doors,,, where ???
I am going to replace the wethershild strip anyway, so do I fit the new wethershild then dynomat over it ? or dynomay physucally on the inside of the door skin ???
oh and anyother tips on the whole concept or just this part pls
10-07-2004, 04:20 PM
#2
Hi,
A more detailed response will follow later after I review your site, but I'm attaching a couple pics showing where I applied some Dynamat in my car. I've got no affiliation with Dynamat by the way. There are some other brands which are available and perhaps cheaper. I was only able to find Dynamat locally.
Basically I just covered the entire door panel, but provided cut outs for the door handle, speaker and some of the locations where the various pins/clips attach the cosmetic door panel to the metal door.
The metal toward the front of the car in the spare wheel well is very thin and rattles like a drum. So I covered that with two layers of Dynamat extreme. I've also got dyanamt behind other panels. So if you remove the small panels around the rear speakers I stuck dynamat to the back side of the csometic pieces and in some cases to the metal as well. Dynamat extreme is easier to work with regardless of whether it actually works any better to deaden sound.
However, I think you are an interesting case since you have a Cab. I've got the coupe, so I don't know how truly quiet you can get your car to start with and quiet was the primary reason for the Dynamat. The secondary reason is to reduce resonance/rattles. I would consider doing the doors of your car under most any circumstance since the speakers mount there and that will automatically set off vibrations, but as to the rest of the effort I'm just not sure. Perhaps other cab owners can comment.
In your case it might be that less time spent on sound deadening and more money spent on some serious amplification might be a better approach.
Again, small speakers or improperly mounted speakers just really can't produce low bass and have a hard time playing cleanly and loudly. That is one reason why some type of subwoofer is usually a good idea. With a separate amp feeding the sub then you can put some crude crossovers in front of the other speakers which cleans up their sound, reduces the load on the amp and allows them to play louder without damage.
That's all for now. More later after I have a chance to review your site.
Cheers,
Phil
A more detailed response will follow later after I review your site, but I'm attaching a couple pics showing where I applied some Dynamat in my car. I've got no affiliation with Dynamat by the way. There are some other brands which are available and perhaps cheaper. I was only able to find Dynamat locally.
Basically I just covered the entire door panel, but provided cut outs for the door handle, speaker and some of the locations where the various pins/clips attach the cosmetic door panel to the metal door.
The metal toward the front of the car in the spare wheel well is very thin and rattles like a drum. So I covered that with two layers of Dynamat extreme. I've also got dyanamt behind other panels. So if you remove the small panels around the rear speakers I stuck dynamat to the back side of the csometic pieces and in some cases to the metal as well. Dynamat extreme is easier to work with regardless of whether it actually works any better to deaden sound.
However, I think you are an interesting case since you have a Cab. I've got the coupe, so I don't know how truly quiet you can get your car to start with and quiet was the primary reason for the Dynamat. The secondary reason is to reduce resonance/rattles. I would consider doing the doors of your car under most any circumstance since the speakers mount there and that will automatically set off vibrations, but as to the rest of the effort I'm just not sure. Perhaps other cab owners can comment.
In your case it might be that less time spent on sound deadening and more money spent on some serious amplification might be a better approach.
Again, small speakers or improperly mounted speakers just really can't produce low bass and have a hard time playing cleanly and loudly. That is one reason why some type of subwoofer is usually a good idea. With a separate amp feeding the sub then you can put some crude crossovers in front of the other speakers which cleans up their sound, reduces the load on the amp and allows them to play louder without damage.
That's all for now. More later after I have a chance to review your site.
Cheers,
Phil
10-08-2004, 07:16 AM
#3
HI Phil,
cheers for the reply, I "understand" where the dynomat goes now ! for the doors.
re the speakers, its part of an ICE project, its to keep flexibility, so I can have amps switched etc, again read my "initial spec" for what I want to use and achieve.
The front speakers are not going to be amped, only through the headunit.
I'll probably go dynomat and foam for the front doors.
again pls check the site and give me your ideas.
thankxs buddy
much apprciated
Ade
cheers for the reply, I "understand" where the dynomat goes now ! for the doors.
re the speakers, its part of an ICE project, its to keep flexibility, so I can have amps switched etc, again read my "initial spec" for what I want to use and achieve.
The front speakers are not going to be amped, only through the headunit.
I'll probably go dynomat and foam for the front doors.
again pls check the site and give me your ideas.
thankxs buddy
much apprciated
Ade
10-09-2004, 09:59 AM
#4
hi phil,
I got some dynomat, but it was only a small ammount, found a company that sold a no-name sound deadening for £20 a roll, so I got that.
pulled everything off, need to do a few other things before I use the sound deade as you have
cheers
Ade
I got some dynomat, but it was only a small ammount, found a company that sold a no-name sound deadening for £20 a roll, so I got that.
pulled everything off, need to do a few other things before I use the sound deade as you have
cheers
Ade
10-09-2004, 02:15 PM
#5
Hi,
I did have a chance to look at your site.
Glad you found some dynamat or equivalent. Again you have a cab so the effect may not be as noticable as it was with my coupe, but it definitely helped. I also went over the car and just tapped/hit varioius interior and body surfaces and if they rattled / resonated I mentally marked them for some sound deadening.
I think your biggest challenge and best improvement from here is likely to to be a subwoofer. I think I read that someone put one behind the front seats somewhere. I don't think you have a back seat so I think there might be some type of cavity that you can mount the sub in. Also note, that my KLA sub is mounted in the rear cubby and has not only the standard carpet laying on top of it but also an after market carpet laying on top of it. the carpet doesn't touch the woofer cone, but my point is that bass can come through certain materials quite well, so hiding down low or out of site is potentially not problem from an acoustic perspective.
As an alternative to mounting speakers under the door handles is there a possibility to mount a tweeter or a small midrange up higher in the door somewhere? It would give you better imaging/soundstage. My ten speaker system has the tweeter and mid mounted forward and up which gives me better soundstage.
The speaker mounted under the door handle in my 10 speaker set up is only providing some mid/high bass 100 Hz - 300Hz. I suspect you are getting most or all of what you need in that part of the spectrum from your Polks and that you could go through a lot of work installing the door speakers under the arm rest.
Bottom line, I vote for the sub as the next step.
Important to note that I'm not a bass freak. I don't have a sub in my high end 2 channel system in the home. Those speakers are Proac 1.5's with only 6.5 inch woofers.
On the subject of speaker wire - I wouldn't perform any unnatural acts replacing speaker wire. It's a car which is a relatively noisy environment and I don't think any improvement will be worth it.
However if you need to run line level cables (rca's and such) I would recomend better quality shielded cabling (maybe Monster Xln's or something similar) at the line level the electro magnetic noise in the car can easily bleed into the line level signals)
Good luck!
Phil
I did have a chance to look at your site.
Glad you found some dynamat or equivalent. Again you have a cab so the effect may not be as noticable as it was with my coupe, but it definitely helped. I also went over the car and just tapped/hit varioius interior and body surfaces and if they rattled / resonated I mentally marked them for some sound deadening.
I think your biggest challenge and best improvement from here is likely to to be a subwoofer. I think I read that someone put one behind the front seats somewhere. I don't think you have a back seat so I think there might be some type of cavity that you can mount the sub in. Also note, that my KLA sub is mounted in the rear cubby and has not only the standard carpet laying on top of it but also an after market carpet laying on top of it. the carpet doesn't touch the woofer cone, but my point is that bass can come through certain materials quite well, so hiding down low or out of site is potentially not problem from an acoustic perspective.
As an alternative to mounting speakers under the door handles is there a possibility to mount a tweeter or a small midrange up higher in the door somewhere? It would give you better imaging/soundstage. My ten speaker system has the tweeter and mid mounted forward and up which gives me better soundstage.
The speaker mounted under the door handle in my 10 speaker set up is only providing some mid/high bass 100 Hz - 300Hz. I suspect you are getting most or all of what you need in that part of the spectrum from your Polks and that you could go through a lot of work installing the door speakers under the arm rest.
Bottom line, I vote for the sub as the next step.
Important to note that I'm not a bass freak. I don't have a sub in my high end 2 channel system in the home. Those speakers are Proac 1.5's with only 6.5 inch woofers.
On the subject of speaker wire - I wouldn't perform any unnatural acts replacing speaker wire. It's a car which is a relatively noisy environment and I don't think any improvement will be worth it.
However if you need to run line level cables (rca's and such) I would recomend better quality shielded cabling (maybe Monster Xln's or something similar) at the line level the electro magnetic noise in the car can easily bleed into the line level signals)
Good luck!
Phil
10-09-2004, 08:10 PM
#6
cheers Phil,
ok, the rear cubby, in the cab has a big damper spring, so that area is pretty much dead, and battery is in the other rear side cubby.
the polks which are 6x5, in the standard front post, are a 2 way speaker and they are very middy, to toppy anyway. the speakers under the arm rest, are the OEM units, that is it is a 3-way set up, and crossover, but the thrid one (tweeter) is not monted in that box, so literally it looks like a bass and mid component. the tweeter can be connected to it, and if I do fit one, I'll fit one in the top front by the window siwtches (I dont have a cut out but your 68 has a cutout and tweeter there).
Dont forget in the cab, with the top down, even a standard set-up with headunit, is plenty loud.
The polks as is made a huge improovement, but as I said a bit toppy, I'm hoping this bit of the project will give better mid/ base response.
cheers and will let you know how it goes when this bit is completed
ok, the rear cubby, in the cab has a big damper spring, so that area is pretty much dead, and battery is in the other rear side cubby.
the polks which are 6x5, in the standard front post, are a 2 way speaker and they are very middy, to toppy anyway. the speakers under the arm rest, are the OEM units, that is it is a 3-way set up, and crossover, but the thrid one (tweeter) is not monted in that box, so literally it looks like a bass and mid component. the tweeter can be connected to it, and if I do fit one, I'll fit one in the top front by the window siwtches (I dont have a cut out but your 68 has a cutout and tweeter there).
Dont forget in the cab, with the top down, even a standard set-up with headunit, is plenty loud.
The polks as is made a huge improovement, but as I said a bit toppy, I'm hoping this bit of the project will give better mid/ base response.
cheers and will let you know how it goes when this bit is completed
10-23-2004, 11:55 AM
#7
HI Phil,
I've found a couple of things, that the dynomat gives a gap/step round the edges making it difficult if not impossible to get the clips to push fit into the holes,
so I've only dynomated around the front 6x4 speaker
did you find anything similar ? I can see the cut outs but that didnt make any difference
cheers
Ade
I've found a couple of things, that the dynomat gives a gap/step round the edges making it difficult if not impossible to get the clips to push fit into the holes,
so I've only dynomated around the front 6x4 speaker
did you find anything similar ? I can see the cut outs but that didnt make any difference
cheers
Ade
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10-23-2004, 02:25 PM
#8
Nerd Herder
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Ade.. that was positevely most coherent I've seen you! 
congrats!
Phil- great work.. i bet its real quiet in thhat cabin.
congrats!
Phil- great work.. i bet its real quiet in thhat cabin.
10-23-2004, 04:42 PM
#9
Hi,
Thanks Chris. It's pretty quiet. My next trick is some new door seals (the ones that mount to the body) to see if I can cut down on some wind noise. The new hatch and sun roof seals seemed to help so this will be the next thing to try.
Ade, Good hearing from you. I didn't have that problem with the clips.. I was concerned about it, and that's why I made the little cut oouts by the clips/fasteners, but it seemed to be OK in the end. I don't know how thick your product is ( I think you said you weren't using the dynamat) so that could be an issue. The Dynamat is reaonably thin.
I think you have the right idea to do as good a job in the area immediately surrounding the speaker as you can. You could start there and work outward.
couple more ideas...
1. Would replacing the little plastic clips that hold the door panel to the door help at all? Those things might get fatigued after a while and not have the grip. I went to a speciality auto paint store the other day and they had a whole collection of different sized fasteners.
2. What you might also try - in addition to what you have done already - is try some thin weather stripping around the perimeter of the door panels. Try to make the runs continuous so as to block as much noise as possible. This won't give you all the benefits of the dynamat but it might stop some sound/noise from leaking out from around the panel.
3. You might also just look to use good old duct tape to cover any other miscelaneous openings in the plastic sheet on the door, the back of the door panel and on anything that might rattle or leak air. It won't be as good as the Dynamat but it might help and its cheap and easy.
That's about all I've got for you. I suspect our clips are the same size so I'm wondering if your 'dynamat' is just a little bit thicker and that is the source of the problem?
Cheers,
Phil
Thanks Chris. It's pretty quiet. My next trick is some new door seals (the ones that mount to the body) to see if I can cut down on some wind noise. The new hatch and sun roof seals seemed to help so this will be the next thing to try.
Ade, Good hearing from you. I didn't have that problem with the clips.. I was concerned about it, and that's why I made the little cut oouts by the clips/fasteners, but it seemed to be OK in the end. I don't know how thick your product is ( I think you said you weren't using the dynamat) so that could be an issue. The Dynamat is reaonably thin.
I think you have the right idea to do as good a job in the area immediately surrounding the speaker as you can. You could start there and work outward.
couple more ideas...
1. Would replacing the little plastic clips that hold the door panel to the door help at all? Those things might get fatigued after a while and not have the grip. I went to a speciality auto paint store the other day and they had a whole collection of different sized fasteners.
2. What you might also try - in addition to what you have done already - is try some thin weather stripping around the perimeter of the door panels. Try to make the runs continuous so as to block as much noise as possible. This won't give you all the benefits of the dynamat but it might stop some sound/noise from leaking out from around the panel.
3. You might also just look to use good old duct tape to cover any other miscelaneous openings in the plastic sheet on the door, the back of the door panel and on anything that might rattle or leak air. It won't be as good as the Dynamat but it might help and its cheap and easy.
That's about all I've got for you. I suspect our clips are the same size so I'm wondering if your 'dynamat' is just a little bit thicker and that is the source of the problem?
Cheers,
Phil
10-26-2004, 05:25 AM
#10
Originally Posted by Chris_924s
Ade.. that was positevely most coherent I've seen you!
congrats!
congrats!
I'm usually like this when I'm not on a mission or soaked up to the eyeballs in insulin or lack of.
I'm trying to learn not to allow brain to get better off me, but teeny tiny steps bruv !
but I'sss isss stilll da bling
cheers Chris
Ade
10-26-2004, 05:30 AM
#11
Hey Phil !
yep , what I did I bought a no-name thing, but I changed my mind on using it, and used the dynomat speaker kit I found instead. its enough for 2 doors and is about 10" square.
had thought of that, before I started replaced all with new OEM parts.the clips all fit except the one at the front, which correspondes to the square of dynomat in the front.
I did that as well, so I'm hoping this will help
cheers phill
will keep you updated
Ade
Originally Posted by phil0618
Ade, Good hearing from you. I didn't have that problem with the clips.. I was concerned about it, and that's why I made the little cut oouts by the clips/fasteners, but it seemed to be OK in the end. I don't know how thick your product is ( I think you said you weren't using the dynamat) so that could be an issue. The Dynamat is reaonably thin.
1. Would replacing the little plastic clips that hold the door panel to the door help at all? Those things might get fatigued after a while and not have the grip. I went to a speciality auto paint store the other day and they had a whole collection of different sized fasteners.
3. You might also just look to use good old duct tape to cover any other miscelaneous openings in the plastic sheet on the door, the back of the door panel and on anything that might rattle or leak air. It won't be as good as the Dynamat but it might help and its cheap and easy.
Phil
will keep you updated
Ade