M758

Hmm,
The panel in my 84 looks different. Not a beefy as the power one. I know they have two power sunroof systems. The early cable system and the later geared ones. Maybe they changed the roof panel too.

tifosiman

I digress..........

Micheal, on your manual mirror conversion, does that 4.5lb savings includ all of the removed wiring and switches? I removed a ton of wiring, that stuff is heavy.

(What's your avatar symbol mean? Is it some ancient chinese insult like "Your Momma!" or something like that? )

Manning

Probably. I'd have to double check the PET. I imagine they beefed up the later power roof for two reasons:

To keep the roof panel from buffeting

To keep the lifting mechanism from flexing the panel too much and crazing the paint.

I have three panels handy, one from and 88 924S (my original panel shown in the picture), one from an 86 944 (on the car now) and the 924 manual panel in the picture. The two power panels look the same structurally.

Manning

Jeremy,

The power flag mirrors are heavy as ****. The manual "Cup" mirrors have really light plastic housings and pot metal bases. The weights I show are only for the mirrors themselves. I haven't weight most of the wiring yet, but I suspect it saves a pound or so per door when you rip out everything for the windows and mirrors.

My avatar is the character for Tao, which is kind of ironic since I fret so much about everything. It is what I strive for though.

tifosiman

Yeah, I was suprised at how heavy mine were when I removed the flag boat anchors I mean mirrors. OK, that explains the weight difference then. I'm closer to a 9lb savings, that includes all of the wiring (about 18-20 feet multiple wire spool with wrap and insulation) and switches (on on the console and the adjuster toggle on the drivers door).

Jeremy

Manning

Oh, I need to add to my sig that I ditched the door speakers too. Not sure how much they weigh though.

Robby

HEY... THANKS Manning.... I dont remember seeing this, although I know we've talked a LOT about misc weight stuff... I was asking M758 for another weight dif though, b/c they don't seem to all way the same- other's have posted MUCH dif weights than you are- you're power is showing ~19.5 including liner & I got 19lbs, so, that's right I'm sure, BUT, Danno weighed HIS power one @17lbs- I KNOW scales vary, but, not by THAT much w/people like us- 2lbs is >10%... Anyway, the manual one I picked up did NOT feel any 5lbs lighter- MAYBE 3lbs.... I'd be ECSTATIC if it were a full 5lbs lighter though... that's worth doing IMO- the liner seems to weigh a bit though, @ almost 4lbs- wondering if somone could finish a nice piece of carbon fibre as a liner & you'd save >3lbs right there... not sure about interior noise intrusion.... ??? Do you know? I HATE noise, so, would hate to remove the liner from a manual conversion & have it be noisier at all.... anyway, PLEASE let me know about the SR motor - I've NEVER had anyone weigh one of those- also- did you remove the tube-like-thing that runs behing the panel at top of the car? CAN you remove it? I've been told you can't get it out- how much does it weigh IF you've removed it? Also wondering- the POWER roof has two boxes for the gears/plastic ARMS that raise the rear of the roof- I'm assumign you REMOVE those completely? I'm assuming you'd remove ~1lbs EACH for removing those, so, 2lbs MORE from the top- i'm beginning to like the sound of this... I ALWAYS thought that the SR was perhaps the STUPIDIST part of this entire car- for what dumb-*** reason would someone make an electric part to raise the rear of the SR 2.5" when you have to remove the thing completely to open it fully??? Not to mention making it such a complicated POS!!! THEN, make the electrical panel 19lbs & not many people will want to make the effort to remove it- hell, it annoys me & I can bench >315lbs, etc, etc... I KNOW there aren't many girls who can handle it & consider it worthwhile... the structural integrity of the electrical panel being better??? WTF for? I mean, NEITHER panel will help at ALL- the car feeels more stable w/OUT ANY panel up there due to weight reduction, so.... the panel would have to be WELDED into place to have any significant strructural benefit... oh well... rambling again...

Thanks...

macnewma

Soooo...what are the P/N needed for the conversion?

Rack #???
Tie Rods #???
Tie Rod Ends #???
other parts????

What differences in parts exist between the early and late cars?

Also, does anyone have a write up?

Thanks
Max

Robby

MAX- wanted to ask- the KISS IC you listed in your sig- what is that? Did it help much w/the amount of mods you have? How much was it, etc- also, the 968 M030 front & welt rear sways- did you find the rear install to be difficult? since you have both, would you recommend one over the other as a pair? I'm trying to decide- I'm not sure how much Welts are (will look when I have some more $$$) but have been told I can get 968 M030's for ~$400/pr- they would be easy to install, being factory parts & all, BUT, Welts ARE supposed to be stiffer- just wondering- the Welt REAR IS adj isn't it? Is it hollow? I know the 968 rear is- is the Welt heavier than the 968? Hence their nicknames; weightmeister- any details on any of this would be appreciated....
ooooh- I keep finding things :-) Kolken SS- have you had any probs w/it? Vibrations, etc? I have a Dave Harrington SS & it is almost identical to the Lindsey (I assume hte Koklen & Lindsey are same?) except it was $75 including S&H & silver instead of black- but, I've had all kinds of probs w/it vibrationwise... it is adj at top AND bottom, which, IIRC, your's is too(?)....

Thanks....

macnewma

Robby-

1. The KISS cooler is an auxillary oil cooler. It is plumbed in-line with the factory unit. I haven't measured oil temps yet and I haven't had a chance to get back out on the track. Oil temps are very important and this should add some insurance. http://944oilcooling.com/

2. Both Swaybars were installed by the previous owner. Yes, the Welt rear is "infinitely" adjustable (it is a sliding clamp). I don't know what the weight differnece is M030 vs. Welt. The Welt is a solid bar. It is also 22mm vs. 19mm for the M030.

3. The Kokeln SS was installed by the PO as well. At first, the buzzing annoyed the hell out of me. Now I don't even notice it. It appears to be a quality unit, but I prefer the look of the stocker. I have been meaning to switch back to stock. Have you tinkered with the adjustments? I haven't.

Good luck and if you find out anything offline about the manual steering conversion, PM me or post it.

Max

Manning

Robby,

I have to bring the scales home again to weigh some stuff. I'll weigh the SR motor, etc. again then. Yes, I removed everything, including the metal tube that the worm gear rides in. That was a bit of a bitch to remove because it is wrapped in thick foam to keep it from rattling. The foam gets ripped up when you pull the tube out, so what though since I don't plan on re-installing it. Actually, I haven't removed everything yet since I left the plastic things that the plastic gears sit in until I can figure out how I want to mount the actually manual roof latch receivers, a la Sidviscous. The gear housing things are pretty big, but I doubt a pound each. I guess when combined with the lift arms, yeah maybe a pound.

http://www.sidv.org/manualsunroof.htm

I think there may be more than 1 power sunroof. His may be an earlier one as Joe suggested. That said, Danno reuses the head nuts and washers when he installs a cylinder head

I have a RUSTmeister front sway in my garage for anybody who wants it. $100.00 plus shipping. I have complete mounts for early arms and most of the bits for later arms. Let me just say HEAVY and marginal finish quality. But hell, it is stiff as a baseball bat. Robby, don't get a Welt, you will want to mess with it too much

Max,

I'll see what I can find for part numbers. The long and short of it is that you have to use a manual rack form a 944. You CANNOT use one (easily) from an early 924. Try Ebay and make sure you get one for an early 944.

You have to use complete tie rods for a manual steering rack as the ones for a power rack will not fit (manual inner end is female thread versus male). You have early offset, so you will likely have an easier time finding complete tie rods. Try Zims or Paragon.

You have to use the intermediate shaft from a manual rack. That is the shaft that has U-joints on each end and goes between the steering column and the rack. It is likely worth getting a new one since an old one will be close to worn out. New are pretty pricey, but on a 951, you DO NOT want to do it twice. Call Paragon.

You'll need the right tie rod boot (different) and the right mount bushing (different).

Other than that it is REALLY simple and straight forward (other than the intermediate shaft removal/reinstall due to space) if you are remotely mechanically inclined.

seb928s

Robby look up my name and manual rack you should find some stuff about it. I see you have an Turbo S so a late offset. You would need to have tie rods modified or better yet just go with the manual tie rod ends for the 87+ models. I have changed to manual from ps on my 86 951. It's pretty easy. You will also need the steering u-joint shaft for the manual rack as the ps one is about an inch to short. If you have any questions ask away.

ERAU-944

the replies have covered the gamut. straight manual is the way to go! its all i have and i love it!

my $9.44

Robby

Michael- why does sid still have that on there about losing the tilt feature for manual SR's? I mean, you STILL have tilt w/manual- AAMOF, you have MORE room TOO tilt, as the arms are longer- at least on the 924 I compared MINE too- it had at least 1/2" more- of course, you don't have a range of adjustment- it's either ALL or nothing.... anyway, still much better than that power nightmare...

Hey Seb- you're one of the ones who was going to get a dif valve spring for the Power racks weren't you? IIRC- I was wanting to do that, but, am just about sick to hell of all the leaks & would just about like to go manual- I LOVE the idea of nickle & diming pounds from this car too.... It sounds like a lot more than I thought, though- the $$ sounds a lot worse- it sounds like it would be at least $500 total... That's more than I've got at the moment, but, I'm going to price some of thise stuff- I guess it wouldn;t be wise to buy any of it used, considering what it is, etc... ???

seb928s

No I wasn't going to get the valve spring. I changed mine out over the summer to manual. I didn't have any leaks in my ps besides when it got cold here in Florida about 40-50 when the seals got smaller and leaked overnight a drop or two. Anyways I didn't want ps and I love manual. A rack with the shaft can be found for 150-250 then you need the tie rods which would be another 250$. Just find the rack and go from there.