Robby

Just curious- this topic has come up a few times- from what I understand, a new rack is needed to go from power to manual- the manual rack having dif geometry to make it slightly easier to steer(?). Anyone here have any input on how hte manual feels, OR, better yet, a comparison b/t power & manual, &/or even better, anyone here converted from power TO manual? I'm about over the BS leaks & I like heavy steering anyway- new M5's, etc feel WAY TOO light- my 951 w/350mm Momo feels okay- better than w/stock wheel- I think a 250mm wheel would give about the perfect weight, but, of course, would LOOK ridiculous... anyway, any input....???


Thanks a lot..
Robby

iloveporsches

I have manual steering. Never had p/s in the car though. The feeling is great. The extra effort is only noticible when you're stopped, so it makes parellel parking a bitch. I'd much rather have the manual rack, lose some weight, and avoid all the bs leaks.

bpp944

I suffered a leaky pump, replaced it 3 times and finally just got sick of dealing w/it and clipped the belt. The wheel is a little "heavy" in the parking lot but I'm used to it now.

You may want to remove your belt and drive it for a couple of weeks to see if you like the feel of it.

ian

I know there are a couple people who have converted to the manual rack, and if I can do so for my 924S project I would like to do so as well. People will tell you to do what Bryan suggesed above, but if you are going to go to manual steering get the manual rack. Clipping the belt on the power rack will give you a faux manual rack, but it will be harder to turn at low speeds than the factory manual rack. Just do some ebay shopping and try to find a manual rack, or i'm sure some company out there has some sitting around......

User 41221

The manual rack is a universe away from how the power rack feels when its clipped. The manual rack feels perfect to me on the '83 track car, even when tooling around on the street, and I am planning on installing a manual rack on my '87 951. I prefer the manual rack feel over a properly installed, no leaks, power rack.

Regards,

Tony K

My thoughts on power steering vs. non (I have an 85.5, had an 83, had both simultaneously for a while)

Power -
+ nice and smooth in parking lots
+ feels a little like a luxury car when you are just cruising; less effort and smoother/less twitchy when you don't need that; i.e. comfort when you want it. Still communicative, though.
+ absolutely perfectly geared/weighted/balanced for flinging the car around turns at speed. Again, smooth, even power/turning makes it less twitchy which makes it more controllable for me

Manual -

+ The raw feel of the manual steering is just perfect. I feel more connected than with the power steering. More effort in terms of controlling the car and keeping it stable in, for example, an autocross, or oversteering around a turn, but that naturally goes with being more connected. The amount of effort you need is continuously variable, so you have to be more sensitive with the amount of muscle you put into it.
+ One less accessory dragging the engine down, worthwhile weight saving
+ Makes oil filter changes easier, too!

If I could choose, manual would win by a hair. I miss my light, agile '83. It was a raw, pure GT car. However, the power steering in my 85.5 is about as nice as I could hope for. It is the best-feeling power steering I have ever driven, with the perfect amount of assist, and I do not feel it detracts from the car.

Cheers,

Lemming

Are there any good DIY guides for making the conversion?

M758

I have used all 3.

For comparison I will compare on my 944-spec car.

Running full power the car turned very qucik. Maybe too quick.
One day I busted the adjuster at the track and pulled the pump. I loved the feeling on the track. A little stiffer to turn, but much more feedback. I loved more connected feeling to the front tires. In the pits it was BIT@H.

Hardest part was manuvering to get on the trailer. This was with slightly smaller steering wheel too. Since the car is track only I kept minus PS. My reasoning. 1 less thing to break and better feedback.

I eventually got my hands on proper manual rack. I installed that in the car and love it. Tiny bit lighter on track with very nice feel. Tough, but workable in pits. Plust even simpler system with even less crap. For atrack car I think the manual rack is ideal.

My 83 autocross car also has the manual rack. Driving around town it is bit tough in parking lots and such, but still very good. Great at autocross again due to feedback.

My 84 944 has the stock power steering. Honeslty is is probably ideal for a street car. Not effort in parking lots and still nice. I don't autocross that car so I give-up nothing vs manual and gain a non-concern in parking lots. The manual you have work it or rememeber to turn when moving.

For a daily driver very occasional track car power is really the way to go. For a street driven track car manual is great. Non-power power rack is fine for track only if you can't get a manual unit, but is perfered to power.

Robby

thanks for all the iput guys..... bpp--- CHARLOTTE eh...??? That's not TOO Far..... u have any really good brake pads on one of those cars at the moment? :-) Tony- WHERE in Ohio? REally... I would LOVe to drive one of these cars- I REALLY want to see how one of these cars feeels w/Bilsteins- I'm looking for brake pad advice too.... almost thinking.... IF I could find a few cars in a relatviely close by area (w/in 300 miles or so) it would be worth a trip to check a few out... there aren't any hrere, unfortunately.... Too bad you're in Phoenix M758- I was just about sold on MANUAL until what u said.... so I'm back to 50/50 damn you.... :-) have u ever weighed your cars?
I'm curious how much dif 200lbs or so would make if I went with the FULL manual rack on my Turbo S(?)- I HAVE driven late 80's GTI's w/manual- they were FWD, so, had larger percentag on front wheels- they were much lighter overall though.... probably ~600lbs.... smaller tires too.... everything adds up ...not sure how all of that evens out....

thanks everyone....

Robby

M758

My spec car is 2450 lbs or so. My 83 is stock and never weighed, but probably 2700 or so. Hard to say for sure. Both cars run 225/50 R15 in front and rear.

My Turbo S is 3100 lbs or so. Given that weight and size of 225/50's in front I'd keep it power. The 951 feels much heavier than my 83. I am sure that a manual on the track will be great, but on the street I think it will mor effort than needed. My 83 runs stock diamters steering wheel and is fine on the road. Parking lots are different. I bought the car as parts car. I liked it since it was cheap, 83 chassis gave me a spare manual rack and a set of cookie cutters. These parts are perfect for my spec car plus a straight body and decient motor just in case. Well after looking at it closely I decided I could drive the car too. Figured an 83 with manual sun roof and manual steering would great autocrosser. It has been lots of fun and manual steering ideal for autocross. Sure it is bit more effort, but rewards with tons of feedback. I am not so sure Id' want a manual rack if were autocrossing my 951. Car is just a bit too heavy. Track events are different and manual would be great. However the difference in manual vs power on the track is not that great. If I all did was drive to and from the track with the odd weekend use then fine, but not if drive it around town alot. Plus the swap to manual on late offset car it quite abit more work requiring different tie-rods. On a early offset car all you need the the rack with the tie-rods and and an intermediate shaft.

Robby

M758- yeah, Manning just e-mailed me about all the various stuff needed to swap for a late model car- that kinda ruins it... I need to ask though.... will you do me a MAJOR favor??? will you weigh the MANUAL SR panel & then the electric one from your turbo for me? bathroom scale is fine- I would LOVE to hear the results- I picked up a manual one a few years back & it waas DEFINATELY lighter than my turbo S- not much, but noticeable... I REALLY want to find a way to drop some weight from that part of the car- going manual would remove probably 2lbs of stuff from up there, PLUS, at least 2lbs from the lid I think(?)- not to mention motor & such in back. BUT, I REALLY want a carbon fibre lid that is removable- ie- NOT WELDED in place! I picked up one at Garrity' years ago that was less than 1lb- it was 1 thin panel though but he said a fully sealed & sound deadened one would weigh under 4lbs at most- he never would build it though. i ask b/c I can definately tell the handling benefits when my sunroof panel is out of my car- the car feels better balanced & more stable- 19lbs is what mine weighs.... other's have said different, so, I would love to hear what weights YOU get, IF you don't mind....

thanks a lot
Robby

M758

The sunroof panels are the same. The difference in the motors (or lack of) in the manual car. No change to removable panel. Even so there is maybe 10 lbs max difference. I know since I stripped everything from my spec car.

Manning

Robby, Robby, Robby, I've posted those weights before. The weights I list below were measured on two certified scales. Weights over 6 pounds are to the half pound while weights up to 6 pounds are to the 10th of a pound.

Stock power fiberglass sunroof panel without hardware or interior liner - 15.5 lbs

Manual fiberglass roof panel from 924 without hardware or liner - 10.5 lbs

Sunroof interior liner, either style - 3.8 lbs

I have the weight of the motor and gears assembly someplace, I'll see if I can dig that up for you.

M758

Hmm I guess I am wrong. I never looked that close at the roof!

Manning

Joe,

The manual and power panels aren't even close to being the same. The manual panel has almost no structural bracing while the power panel has two big fat aluminum I-beams running across the front and rear edges to make it stiffer.

The white panel is the manual one, the black panel is the power one. Pardon the junk in my basement: