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benefits from a crossdrilled crank?

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Old 08-26-2004, 10:19 AM
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joseph mitro
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Default benefits from a crossdrilled crank?

since my engine is at the machine shop and the crank is getting turned, can anyone tell me what the benefit of having the crank cross drilled would be? is this for better lubrication? weight savings?
Old 08-26-2004, 10:24 AM
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adrian_jaye
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the car goes faster ??
Old 08-26-2004, 10:32 AM
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Dave951M
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Better lubrication. If you're looking for performance modifications, have it knife edged, polished and balanced.
Old 08-26-2004, 11:21 AM
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joseph mitro
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what is knife edging and what benefit does it offer?
Old 08-26-2004, 11:33 AM
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David Floyd
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Originally Posted by joseph mitro
what is knife edging and what benefit does it offer?
Lighter weight, less oil foaming

Old 08-26-2004, 11:38 AM
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adrial
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It's a shame to cover that up with the oilpan...
A see-through oil pan with integrated windshield wiper...the next big 951 tuner mod.

Cross-drilled crank means that they essentially take the current oil feed hole in your rod journals...and drill straight through to the other side. Perp-drillled is when they drill perpindicular to that axis that the current hole is on.

It's only neccesary if you intend on tracking the car. Although, it couldn't hurt if you're already in there. It could be a selling point if you ever sell the car.
Old 08-26-2004, 11:44 AM
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Dave951M
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Lighter weight, less rotational mass = less hp used as revs increase = more hp available for the rear wheels

Oil foaming is a side benefit. Also look into a windage tray if your oil sump doesn't have one. That's another very basic performance modification.
Old 08-26-2004, 11:54 AM
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David Floyd
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Originally Posted by Dave951M
Also look into a windage tray if your oil sump doesn't have one. That's another very basic performance modification.
Dave, windage tray, are you talking something other than the stock plastic baffle ?

The guy's at www.crank-scrapers.com were interested in making a scraper for us, but needed a block in Florida to design around, don't know if they were able to find one.
Old 08-26-2004, 12:03 PM
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The plastic baffle is an attempt at a windage tray. I'm convinced that a better one could be designed but the demand for our cars would be so low that no one would be interested. Said tray would include a baffle design to keep the oil around the pump pickup to help eliminate the cavitation on right hand sweepers that kills off the #2 rod bearing. A better solution yet would be a dry sump setup. I haven't run across one yet, but I'm sure someone has done it somewhere.

Crank scrapers would be ok for a stock crank, but while mines out early next year, I'm going with knife edge and drilling. On the drilling, I'm still checking out the pro/con of cross v perp drilling. At this time, it looks like you pays yer $$ and makes yer choice. No convincing case either way.
Old 08-26-2004, 12:11 PM
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hacker-pschorr
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Originally Posted by adrial
It's only neccesary if you intend on tracking the car. Although, it couldn't hurt if you're already in there. It could be a selling point if you ever sell the car.
112,000 - never on the track - threw a rod bearing. I will cross-drill my crank for this next rebuild.

Knif - edging? I'm not 100% sold on that idea. Porsche spend a lot of time and money designing and building that crank. To spend the $$ to whack off weights that were put there for a reason, I dunno. The jury's still out on that one in my book.

Then again, they thought the oil journals were designed well.............
Old 08-26-2004, 12:20 PM
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If you knife edge the crank, you should get the whole rotating assembly dynamically balanced, as he weights will be WAY off when you knife edge the crank. I agree with Hacker-Pschorr, I'm not sold on that idea.

Cross drilling sounds like a good idea.

Dal.
Old 08-26-2004, 12:24 PM
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Luis de Prat
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Originally Posted by Dal Heger
Cross drilling sounds like a good idea.Dal.
From the old Huntley website:

Huntley Racing had done a lot of research over the years into EXACTLY why 944 cars spin rod bearings. What we found out over several years of searching was that there is much more miss-information that actual facts. First we found that whether in a track car, streetcar or even a weekend show car all 944 based cars including the 968 can spin a rod bearing. Second this has nothing to do with HP or TQ. Third it has nothing to do with uncovering the oil pick-up (This is a common miss-conception promoted by many many shops). Fourth is that extra oil, like a half quart over the dipstick, does nothing. Fifth the Accusump and other systems don't fix this issue (other possible problems yes, but not the common rod bearing failures). Sixth no matter how many baffles you have put in your pan they will not help. I can go on and on but to get to the 'meat' of the matter....

What causes rod-bearing failures is 99% of the time centrifugal force. We found the solution to the mystery in an uncommon place, the Chevy world. It turns out a Chevy motor has the same problem, the 454 big block. Chevy 454 big blocks, which were designed for lower RPM operation, later became popular for drag racers. The drag racers started to turn more and more rpm's in search of more HP, which resulted in a 'new' problem developing, spun rod bearings. It took years to figure out why. The reason turned out to be so basic that the likes of Chevy and Porsche simply 'missed' it.

As a crankshaft rotates it has many forces acting upon it. It is obvious that the pistons push on the rods, which push on the crank and so forth and so on. What was missed was centrifugal force acting on the oil within the crank. High-pressure oil is fed thru the center of the crank to the main and rod bearings. Oil passing thru each journal is forced out of the crank onto the surface of the bearing thru the oil feed, which is nothing more than a hole in the surface of the journal. Where the 'mistake' was made was in the placement of the hole. The single oil feed hole can be drilled at any point 360 deg around on the journal, this is a decision dictated during the production of the crank. When the 944 crank design was made there was no attention given to the placement of this hole and the effect centrifugal force might have on the oil within it. Where the feed was placed just so happens to be one nearly opposite the direction centrifugal force pulls the oil when the crank is in motion. As the RPMs increase the centrifugal force goes up, eventually to the point where the oil pumps pressure simply can't overcome it. When this happens the rod bearings are starved of oil. The reason more track cars have this failure is because they are at high RPMs more often and for longer periods of time. Also track cars tend to have relatively high oil temperatures which thins the oil and causes the oil pressure to drop which lowers the RPM point where oil starvation at the rod bearings occurs. Further the high RPMs and often overfilled oil pans (to supposedly save the rod bearings) cause high windage that aerates the oil, further reducing its lubricating potential. Older motors spin rod bearings more often than newer motors since they have had more high RPM time than new motors and they usually have less oil pressure. Baffles, Accusumps, overfilling etc... do nothing to stop this failure mode.

Cross-drilling came out several years ago as a remedy for this issue but not because the problem was understood but because the idea was that a second oil feed hole would add more oil. There was a positive benefit from crossdrilling. The new oil feed opposite the original oil feed was not either hurt or helped by centrifugal force due to its position. This meant
that the oil pump could generally keep up with the oiling needs of the rod bearings. Huntley Racing however took the cross-drilling to the next level and developed the Perp drilled crank. We perpendicularly bore a new feed into the rod journal, which is actually taking the nemesis, 'centrifugal force' and working with it to help to actually scavenge oil to the rod bearing as the RPMs go up!! Since we have machined cranks with this technique we have 'NEVER' had a rod bearing failure in any car, ever! We started offering these in 1998.

This subject and its relevance to the 944 world is obvious but it is only one of many possible failures, which can and do occur to these cars. Cars that suffer rod failure generally can trace this to the above mentioned rod bearing problem as the catalyst. Main bearings generally don’t have this problem simply because they are centrally located on the centerline of the crank and have a much smaller ‘arm’ to their outer diameter which makes them far less susceptible to oil starvation from centrifugal force.

So in summary if you have your crank out have the process done. If your motor is still together and you want to avoid spinning a bearing without the Perp drilled crank, keep your oil temps down, limit your RPMs a bit (look at your HP peak and avoid revving past it), run a higher viscosity oil, avoid over filling, and keep the oil fresh.

Derrek Huntley Khajavi
Huntley Racing

Copyright (C) 01/27/2002
Old 08-26-2004, 12:26 PM
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David Floyd
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Originally Posted by Dal Heger
If you knife edge the crank, you should get the whole rotating assembly dynamically balanced, as he weights will be WAY off when you knife edge the crank.

Dal.
I agree and I did, along with lighter pistons and rods,lightened stock flywheel, no balance shafts, very near smooth as stock.
Old 08-26-2004, 12:33 PM
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hosrom_951
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Cross drilling would allow oil to lubricate better

Knife edging is another attempt to lighen/better designed crank since the way the crank was designed, the way it sloshes the oil and create foam. Knife edging makes the crank with sharper 'bottom' thus on higher revs it would cause as much foaming as stock.

Weight reduction.........what i HEARD that a lighter crank gives more hp numbers but doesn't achieve 'as much' tq numbers............
Old 08-26-2004, 12:37 PM
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adrial
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Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr
112,000 - never on the track - threw a rod bearing. I will cross-drill my crank for this next rebuild.

Knif - edging? I'm not 100% sold on that idea. Porsche spend a lot of time and money designing and building that crank. To spend the $$ to whack off weights that were put there for a reason, I dunno. The jury's still out on that one in my book.

Then again, they thought the oil journals were designed well.............
I went with perp drilling for mine, makes more sense to me. Although there are arguments for cross drilling too, if you get into how the forces are applied as the crank roates around...with the combustion cycle taken into account.

I would only knife edge if I was going to remove mass from the pistons and rods as well, to keep everything balanced.


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