Geo

That has nothing to do with it. The method is still the same.

Matt H

It does have something to do with it. It is one hell of a lot of easier to measure when everything it 100% perfect. I never said the method was different.

As to the it drives straight comment that doesnt mean a darn thing. Hell I can align a car so that the steering wheel is upside down or 90 degrees off that will drive straight.

Im done, if you guys think you are as good as a 50K dollar laser aligner then go to it. Sure will suck when your measurement is off by a little or you take you measurements in the air and then lower the car down. There are still some guys that are damn good with a bubble balancer, that doesnt make the the best or easiest solution.
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Geo

Easier to adjust I can agree with. Easier to measure? No.

Matt, I completely agree that an alignment rack is much easier and faster. But that doesn't mean someone wtih experience cannot do just as good a job as someone using an alignment rack. It just takes longer and requires more patience and probably more trial and error.

Professional alignment racks are mean to make the job easier and faster, two things a shop owner is concerned about.

Elephant Chuck

Home alignment can be performed accurately. You do need to know the proper techniques or your results will suffer.

Motivation to do the job correctly is another big factor. A $X0,000 Hunter laser alignment machine is only as good as the guy turning the screws.

In my experience, the tire and wheel shop charging $59 for an alignment a) will not take the time to do it right b) does not know how to align a Porsche c) will not do a "performance alignment" that deviates from factory settings or d) all of the above.

There are specialty shops that charge more and know what they are doing. They are few and far between and only in a few major metro centers.

But if you are taking it to the corner wheel and tire guy, you are almost certainly not getting a good alignment. They want to set the toe and get you on your way. Some will give you the computer readout showing the alignment out of spec. Then the stories begin "Porsches don't have camber adjustment", "We adjusted it all the way and that is as good as it gets", "was this car in and accident?". Blah blah blah. All BS.

Learn to do it yourself and you can do a much better job in your own driveway with basic tools, guaranteed.

Matt H

I concur it is to make the job easier. That said, your tape measure is not as accurate as pointing a laser at a point and asking it within .0001 of an inch what the measurement is. You can set camber caster and toe at home and be fairly close (I conceded that on page 1). I have no argument there. You will have one hell of a time measuring Setback and SAI with a protractor, string and tape measure. It all depends on how worthwhile it is to you.

a) maybe, maybe not. Just as good a chance that a Porsche tech will cut corners.
b) there is a good possibility they dont want to but any newer alignment machine will go as far as to tell you which bolts to turn. Doesnt know how is not a valid excuse, it is a car not a UFO
c) what's a performance alignment? Is any numbers you give them a performance alignment? If so I'd like -5.7 deg of camber, can you do that? As to deviating from factory specs, why should they? Since we are speaking in theory, if I set your car however you like it and it chews up the tires, when you come back and demand tires, what am I supposed to do?
d) all of the above, well OK. I suppose anything is possible.

I take that as a personal affront. I WAS that corner tire guy for some time and I assure you you could get a "good" alignment at my shop on anything from a Cavalier to and XJ220 (and Yes I did a few of those). I bet you that if you do it yourself without first understanding alignment you are almost certainly not going to get a good alignment.

If they dont give you a print out what good are they, you cant prove they did anything! If they said Porsche's dont have camber adjustment then take the car and dont pay (BTW, the machine will print a page showing that XX model does not offer XX adjustment). As good as it gets it far too often the case when someone brings in a car that needs 1K dollars in parts and wont fix it. How do you set alignment on a car with bad tie rods? You CANT, thats how.

Was this car in an accident is often a question if the Caster is out of spec. It is generally not adjustable (though it is on 944s). Caster is really of little care to 99% of people because, provided there is a good split, it makes no difference if it is in spec or not. I.e. if a cars Caster is out of spec but can maintain a .6 deg. split the car should drive fine. Show me a car with a 2 deg caster split and I will show you a car driving in circles, given a big enough space.

Like anything, if you know how to do it you will take more time and care a little more than most. Is it worthwhile to spend hours to do it? On a street car I would say no, not really. What is your time worth?

BTW - start with measuring the ride height, life will be much easier.
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Elephant Chuck

Matt, you obviously have a personal stake in this. I don't - so I won't be getting into a pissing match.

I've shared my experience based on multiple Porsches and mulitple shops, not pleasant. I now do my own alignments.

Yes, you do need to know what you are doing. This job takes more skill and knowledge than most DIY items. But with a little research and basic tools, you can do it at home and do it well.

Matt H

Chuck - I dont want a pissing match either, I agree with your last paragraph 100% I have not even argued that at all. I agree with George as well. It CAN be done and you CAN do it well. The issue is how many will take the time to do it right on their own, if they are smart enough to calculate it out on their own, and how much is that time worth.
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johne

First off I appreciate ALL who have contributed to this post, because I feel that all of you have shared knowledge to the best of your abilities.

I am however still very interested hearing about various techniques that can be used by the do it yourselfer to make this job easier, cheaper, and more accurate. I invite anyone with any tips to please contribute their information as I think I and others will find it very helpful. And yes Chuck that includes you.

Also Matt it would appear that you have experience aligning our cars. If you have any tips that will make the job easier or improved settings I would love to hear them.


Thanks all, keep it coming.

John

Lead Foot 944

Matt, all your knowledge on this matter, and yet not a word came from your mouth in regards to how bad my camber settings are....Never noticed it huh..? Yeah its time for an allignment....

DAmian

Matt H

Damian - when people make trips to my house I try not to critize, not the best way to treat your house guests. There were a few of you there who could use an alignment. On your car it doesnt matter, NO ONE is staring at the tires, there are other things worth looking at!
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Lead Foot 944

So MAtt I will be calling you very soon for some pointers on this matter.....As I need one very badly...It got all srewed up when I lowered the car in the rear and put in the new struts and coil-over kit from Paragon....I didnt mark a thing......Probably should have......Wasnt thinking I guess.....What is a good price to pay or average price to pay for a good 4 wheel allignment..?

DAmian

Geo

Try doing a web search for DIY alignment. IIRC you will find several good sites in the first few pages of hits.

There used to be an Audi site I found donig a Google search on DIY alignment that really takes you through the process. Be warned, there are many techniques. For instance, some people use as little and as simple tools as possible. Others have Smart Camber gauges and fancy toe plates. Certain tools will make the job easier, but all that is ultimately necessary is string, 4 jack stands or something else to wrap the string around that won't move, and a tape measure. So, you'll want to sort of scan various sites and decide just how much you want to invest in tools and how much complexity you're willing to deal with.

Matt H

I have adjusted toe on large trucks with nothing more than a patch of grease on the ground so they would turn in

George is right there are loads of methods.
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Travis - sflraver

I do mine myself.

The "el cheepo" magnetic camber gauge (harbor freight) fits between the holes in the fuchs and sticks right to the rotor. Can't ask for better than that.

Geo

On the race car, when we make an alignment change we always roll it back and forth several feet before measuring the alignment. It removes all sticktion from the suspension and tires and settles everything down.

It's a bit of a pain, but it's the only way to be sure you're getting an accurate reading.