Matt H

Typical looks like this.

Customer comes in, says "I want XX"
Shop says "OK"
Customer leaves
Customer returns

Not how it should be but a pretty accurate representation.
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elf89

Then...
Customer is surprised by bill and gets mad
Shop gets defensive and mad
Customer eventually pays, but doesn't return

All I'm saying is both the customer and the shop have some degree of power to prevent this result with good communication up front.

BTW, Matt, I'm glad you jumped in on this because it's great to see the perspective from your side of the counter. I'm sure it's frustrating to deal with customers who don't understand the challenges and realities of running a shop.

UDPride

What are spark plug wires and where can I find them on my car.

Cordially,

Lester Palsey Hands

tifosiman

Was this post really initially posted on this forum, or the 996 forum?

elf89

No question about it Darius, and I respect the heck out of all the gurus here who do everything themselves, but some of us don't have the time or mechanical inclination to be successful at this, but we still love our 944s!

Sometimes I sense an attitude from this board (not necessarily you, Darius) that if you can't work on your 944, you're an idiot to own one. I disagree. Here's my recipe for outsourcing 944 work:

1. Find a good shop you can trust that knows 944s. Best source for this is other 944 owners, PCA, Rennlist, etc.
2. Read these boards, the 944 FAQ, Clark's Garage and learn about your car so you know what to expect and what the shop is talking about.
3. Budget $500-1000 per year to properly maintain your 944 (note: an abused 944 will cost much more than this.) Be willing to expect an overage on occasion. Clutch replacement is around $1500.
4. Be willing to do the little stuff yourself. I was very excited when I found and unclogged the sunroof and other drain lines, replaced the shift boot and fixed the turn signal reset problem! No need to pay $80 an hour for that stuff. Even did an oil change or 2.
5. Drive and enjoy your 944!

If it gets to be too expensive or has been too abused to pay someone to bring back to life, sell it to one of the gurus here and let them bring it back!

incessant

when i think tune up i think:

NEW
- air filter
- distributor cap
- rotor
- spark plug wires
- spark plugs
MAYBE at a nominal extra charge if they call me and say 'hey it's time/mileage for this too'
- fuel filter
- oil change

^--,
sounds closer toi a 30K mile servicing then a tune up

incessant

.

Matt H

Then...
Customer is surprised by bill and gets mad
Shop gets defensive and mad
Customer eventually pays, but doesn't return

YEP!!

I agree 100% the shop should have given him something to sign. However, that does NOT remove any obligation of the owner. If he thought he was getting one thing when he heard the price he should have known otherwise.
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2+2

I have never had a place that included anything resembling an air filter, cap, rotor, wires, fuel filter, or an oil change in any "tune up" for the past 20 years I have had my cars serviced. (I only work on my 951 and take the other cars to the shop). I know there must be variation between geography and shops but that is more like a 60K service, not a tune up.

pologuy

Ok, Listen Matt H....I thought I was being nice by taking your criticism in a nice way, but your arrogance is just way TOO much now - from your initial reply post telling me ....."Well, if you didnt ask what was included, kick your own ***, chalk it up to experience and move on.." to your latest..... When I heard the price I should have known otherwise? Why is that? Because I am some former auto guy like you? I AM NOT, that is why I come here and ask you guys and why I bring my car into a Porsche shop to get serviced. I am not some all knowing auto guru with over 6500 posts here in the last year like you. So when I was given a price, I had NO reason to question it. I was told they used MAHLE "filters", pural- in the tune up.

I came here and continue to come here for help from guys who know A LOT more about this stuff than I do (which wouldn't be hard). And if you care to scan my posts, you will find that before I brought my car in for the tune-up I did post a question as to what a typical tune up consisted of and it got responses from guys on here, none of which said that an air filter and an oil change was not part of a tune-up. Your arrogant assumption that I "should have known otherwise" is actually quite appalling....SO, to ask your question......why should I have known the difference?

I think this thread has run its course, I obviously didnt get what I thought I was getting and thats fine, live and learn. I plan on asking a lot more questions in the very near future and would hope that I dont get slammed for not being able to fix my car myself and for not knowing how to do the things I ask about......

Thanks as always.

Shutemup

Back when most vehicles had a distributor cap and rotor.......

A tune up consisted of

Plugs
Cap
Rotor

5 min on the machine to check to see if everything else was ok

Replacing a bad spark plug wire was included in the price (only if one was bad though)

anything else would have been extra.

At least that's what the ads used to say when they advertised them for $59.95 at places like performance tune or whatever it was called IIRC

Who does a tune up without changing cap and rotor though?????

I would have expected plugs, cap, rotor, checking the wires and mixture when someone says tune up.

jp944

PG, I'm sure no one will really slam you for not being able to do your own work. I for one always encourage people to do as much of their own work as possible for lots of reasons. I think most of the guys on the board feel the same way, although I can't really speak for them.

One side benefit of doing some of your own maintenance is that you'll start thinking of jobs in terms of parts needed instead of $$$ the mechanic will charge. That will make it much easier to know what is an appropriate bill or estimate. It will also spur you to ask more questions if an estimate seems too low or too high, which is always healthy. As long as wrenching continues to be a 'black art' to you, you'll be frustrated when taking your car to the shop, shelling out big bucks and feeling taken whether you were or not. It is frustrating to be on the other side of the counter, too... trying to give a customer a deal, and have them give you the stink eye cause they think it was too much. Anyway, best of luck with the car.

Tabor

FYI, your fuel filter needs to be changed a lot more frequently than your spark plug wires (it costs a lot less too).

But when it comes down to it, I think of a tune up including:

-Spark Plugs
-Cap
-Rotor
-Air Filter
-Fuel Filter

And for our cars, maybe checking the CO setting on the AFM. This happens to be something that most shade tree mechanics don't have to equipment to do.

pete944

Tabor, where have you been?

Tabor

Working really hard on my CS degree, and getting married, and having a son (plus stepdaughter), and not having any money for fix the maintain the Porsche, so hanging out here makes little sense at this point. But I check in every once in a while. I will be done with my CS degree in less than 2 years now, and then it is time for a full tear down and rebuild (plus that 968 engine I have sitting in my shed).