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Hi all. The other day I noticed a groaning sound when turning the steering wheel when the car is cold. It gets better as the car warms up and goes away completely when it's at temperature. Checked the P.S. reservoir and level was very low so I refilled it this morning. Didn't notice an immediate improvement, but the system may need to bleed itself.
Anyway, the P.S. rack and reservoir were replaced less than a year ago, and there is no visible sign of leakage. Any idea what could be causing this? While nosing around for leaks I noticed that the sway bar bushing on the passenger side is in bad shape and the bushing bracket is covered in a black greasy substance. The other side is dry and the bushing is in good shape. Could the P.S. fluid be leaking down onto this and causing the damage to the bushing? If so, from where would it be leaking?
Thanks y'all!
Last edited by idealcheese; 08-01-2024 at 10:55 AM.
Reason: Added photo
Yes thats likely your leak. Clean everything well with brake cleaner or the like, and monitor for the source of the leak. Without this step it will be hard to identify the source. Fluid follows gravity so follow the leak to its highest possible point. Also check inside that PS boot and see if there is fluid inside, if so, its your PS rack seals. Could also be leaking from lines/banjo above and dripping down to your sway bar bushing. Theres no way to really tell you where its leaking from, youll have to do that investigation yourself once everything is clean and you can take it for a drive.
I see a lot of fluid all over that area, including the crossmember, tie rods, etc so you definitely have leaks - either PS fluid or engine oil. Again, this is why the area should be cleaned up so you can get a fresh look at all the possible leak locations. Brake cleaner does wonders.
Once youve dealt with the leak, you can then get a new bushing on that sway bar. Groaning is due to air in the system/cavitation in the pump because of low fluid or a leak.
Last edited by walfreyydo; 08-01-2024 at 11:59 AM.
Awesome advice, thanks! I will get out the brake cleaner and a wire brush and have at 'er. I actually already bought a new bushing some time ago, as I noticed the tear on the current one long before having a P.S. issue. I wasn't smart enough to compare to the other side and surmise that something must be leaking on the dirty side, DOH!
The other thing that's really nice to clean these kinds of things up are mineral spirits. Put some in a spray bottle, soak everything, and give it a little bit of time to do its work. It's a nice alternative to brake cleaner for the stuff that is still sort of wet, but not caked on greasy (though it does work for that, as well, just takes longer).
The other thing that's really nice to clean these kinds of things up are mineral spirits. Put some in a spray bottle, soak everything, and give it a little bit of time to do its work. It's a nice alternative to brake cleaner for the stuff that is still sort of wet, but not caked on greasy (though it does work for that, as well, just takes longer).
Good luck
@Zirconocene are you saying that mineral spirits work better than brake cleaner? I have both, but the spirits aren’t in a spray container and the brake cleaner is, so that would be simpler for me. Thanks.
Mineral spirits are way slower, no doubt, but what I like is that they also sort of stick around more than brake cleaner. So for nooks and crannies I find that they're a nice alternative, since you can put them on and they'll sit much longer than the brake cleaner, which is really made to flash off quickly. They're less expensive, too, for what that's worth.
Spray the brake cleaner directly from the can into all the hard to reach spots as the pressure will help wash away much of the grease/oil/dirt.
Have a bucket or bin below to catch the brake cleaner as it drips off, and dunk a rag into it and do some additional hand cleaning to reduce wasted brake cleaner.
Mineral spirits works well too, just keep it away from your paint/body.
Update: I cleaned up the bushing bracket and then started the car. I was surprised to find that the noise hadn't gone away despite me having refilled the reservoir. I had my son sit in the car and turn the wheel left and right while I looked under the hood. First of all, the noise is really bad. Very loud awful groan. Second, while the sound was being produced, P.S. fluid was spewing out of the hole in the reservoir cap. Third, when I opened the reservoir at that point to have a look, the fluid was very foamy.
I stuffed a rag next to the reservoir and went for a drive, avoid turning the wheel until the car was warmed up. When I got home after about an hour of driving, the rag only had a little pink on it, so I can say with confidence that it only spews when it's making the noise. The fluid was not at all foamy after the drive, either.
The system is self bleeding so it makes sense that the returned fluid is foamy, until the air works its way out of the system.
You're going to get a lot of noise until all the air is out. As you did, but may have to do some more, turning the wheels lock to lock will help get fluid to every place that it needs to be in the rack.
Keep monitoring things. The reservoir has an internal, non-replaceable filter in it. If yours is original, maybe it's a little clogged and the reservoir needs replacing. They're not expensive, thankfully, it's just a slightly messy job.
@Zirconocene You reassure me… perhaps this will resolve itself without too much trouble after all. The reservoir was replaced less than a year ago at the same time as the rebuilt steering rack was installed. (I believe the pump was not replaced at the same time, I assume because it wasn’t found to be faulty.) So it’s unlikely, I think, that the filter would be clogged.
Noted that I should be patient for the system to bleed itself. Is there anything that can be done to prevent the spewing? Should I try moving the wheel back and forth with the reservoir cap off? Thanks so much!
You really need to clean everything in that area, not just the sway bar bracket, I mean everything that has oil on it in the entire area - the power steering rack, all lines running to/from the pump, the engine and anything nearby that has oily grime on it. Since you dont know where the leak is coming from you really need to so this step - yes thats a pain, and yes youll have to lift up the front of the car but its just the reality on how you diagnose something like this. I can see in your photo that the entire underside of the vehicle in that area is covered in oil... not just the bracket.
Secondly, the air in the system is present because you have a leak or other avenue for air to enter the system. This will not self bleed until the leak in the system is first identified and then resolved. It will continue to be foamy, the groan will persist until the underlying cause is identified and addressed.
Also, just my opinion/practice, but I use red ATF (automatic transmission fluid) in all my power steering systems, which is pretty common - this allows you to discern the difference between engine oil and power steering fluid. Are you using red ATF currently? If not, you should try draining the system and replacing, clean area, and monitor for red fluid leaks and locate its source.
Last edited by walfreyydo; 08-02-2024 at 01:00 PM.
If it's only sucked in air because the level was low, then yes, it takes a while to get all the air out (and you get a foamy mess until then). I would leave the cap on, run it lock-to-lock, leave it a few hours for the foam to settle, repeat.
Hello friends, ,just wanted to post an update in case this can be of help to anyone. I found the problem. The noise didn't go away even after refilling with ATF, and the foaming was still happening. So finally I got under the car and looked at the pump while having my son turn the wheel, and plain as day I could see that the pump was separating at the seam and leaking liquid when under pressure. The screws were loose! I tightened them up and voila, no more noise. I feel a bit silly that it took me so long to find something so obvious, but I was fooled into thinking the cap spewing was the cause of the fluid loss.
Glad to hear that solved your issue. It's likely that the power steering pump will still need resealed in the future. Rennbay sells the rebuild kit and it's fairly straightforward and simple. You will want to also want to replace the banjo bolt crush washers and the reservoir when rebuilding the pump. The reservoir has a filter inside that can break down and contaminate the system. Replacement of the reservoir is the best option when rebuilding thr pump. Use your judgement on the power steering pressure and feed lines and clamps.
It's likely that the seals have shrunken and the bolts may have loosened because of the seal shrinkage and engine vibration. Just a precaution, as you may see leakage again in the future if you do not rebuild the pump.
@mazdaverx7 Thanks for the heads up, but the reservoir and pump were replaced a year ago at the same time as a rebuilt steering rack was installed and a lot of other work being done (including all new belts and water pump). Could they possibly need replacing already? If vibration can cause the bolts to loosen, then I suspect it was caused by the balance belt sprocket being installed the wrong way and later the accessory belt being maladjusted due to the AC condenser coming loose. Been dealing with belt issues a lot in the past year causing quit a bit of vibration.
08-01-2024, 10:51 AM
Power steering fluid low, no sign of leak
