944T4ME

I will once my new rims arrive. 86 offset. PM me.

Danno

The irony of using laws and punishment to regulate behavior is that it's a too-late-after-the-fact approach. Kinda like locking your barn after all your animals have run away. Laws and penalties are really to deal with what to do after something has happened, it really doesn't do much to prevent transgressions.

That governs behavior on the other end, the before-the-fact side, is values and morals. Something that's taught by our parents, churches and schools, in that order perhaps. It's unfortunate that in a recent poll, about 50% of parents answered that they did NOT want to have their kids. That might explain the increasing number of kids growing up with out strong guidance from their parents. Might also explain why our schools have been overburdened with parenting duties such as teaching discipline and providing day-care.

Gosh, there are just so many things that have run amuck by the time you see a kid smeared across the pavement, that I have no idea how far back you gotta go in order to correct this idiocy...

Chris_924s

I know exactly how far back you gotta go Danno.. Parents.
I have always stressed "Only go as fast as you can go safely"- this goes back to the days I taught them how to ride a bicycle. It pertains to speed nontheless.

Lack of experience PLUS speed will always kill. Speed kills the Professional drivers with plenty of experience as well...

Both of my sons have chosen to get thier DL's later- 18 to be exact.
Neither has much interest or need to drive, so they dont.

Isnt that odd in the "My dad's got a red Porsche" set? It confuses me somewhat, but I respect the decision to mature more, and to accept the financial and human responsibility.

Nonetheless, sorry for the loss- but they happen everyday.
It's senseless and needless to lose young lives to the inability to recognize their own skill level.

Yabo

wow... i cant imagine putting off my license any more than the law made me. especially if my dad had had a porsche, and i had to ride in it, it wouldve just eaten at me until i could drive!

Dave

Putting off getting a license can help, the problem there IS with the states. Driving age is 17 in NJ and when I see some of these kids (not forgetting I was one of them once) I'm glad it isn't 16 here. There are some of kids that are mature enough at 16 to be safe drivers (I probably wasn't one of them) but there are enough that still aren't ready for the responsibility at 17 that I have to wonder if we'd be better off making the minimum age 18. I've heard of states that use a tiered lisence system where 1st year driver's are restricted to certain hours for a period of time, maybe doing this from 17 to 18 is a good idea. No matter what age you start driving, you will be an inexperienced driver at first, during the day is thebest time to get you early experience, not at night. OTOH, there also needs to be a maximum age. If we can pick a number that defines a time when one is (in theory) ready to start driving, we can certainly pick a number that defines when grandma should park it. 18-78 gives you 60 years behind the wheel, that's enough!

Matt H

Dave, I think there should be mandatory, yearly restesting for senior over X age. I dont know what X is.

Most accidents involving teenagers are due to too many people being in the car, adding distractions. Then when the person gets in trouble, a lack of skill causes over-correction.

I can attest to the last one. I had an accident in a 95 Caprice that was so violent it took two flatbeds to move it. Ripped the front off the car and nearly killed me. A combination of speed and lack of skill are directly to blame. A lack of respect for the car probably contributed to 30% of the problem.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote

hacker-pschorr

The idea of a law like this scares the crap out of me. The term "street race" is far to vague. What if I'm driving down main street and some one is trying to race me, & I ignore them (as I usually do) they eventually speed off to show how fast they are (as they usually do). What if that car gets into an accident while speeding away. I will bet you there will be some witness that will tell the police my license plate number and say I was racing the other guy. Ask me how I came up with this scenario? It's not very uncommon either.

The only person who should be held responsible for the death of another person is the driver of the car that killed that person. Keep it simple please.

The person who drove the car that killed someone made the decision to race, it was their choice.

Throwing a 17 year old kid in jail for street racing isn't going to solve anything anyway. The number of small drag strips across the country are disappearing at an alarming rate. People move into the area and get them pushed out of town. Now we see street racing going up? Gee, I wonder why.

All of these stories remind me of the 80's when all of my friends were skaters. One of my friends was riding the edge of the wall in a parking garage. Ended up falling 4 stories to his death. The parents tried to sue the store that sold him the skate board of all places. Once did they ever try to help their kids build a skating park? Nope.

People wanting to race in cars will never end. Politicians that fail to realize we need safe places to race are few and far between. Handing out tickets only puts more money into the local government.

Z-man

Dave:
IIRC, the NJ driver license has limits as you mentioned. From 17-18, a driver cannot have more than 1 person in the car, and there are certain time restrictions as well.

-Z.

89magic98

I wonder if the cars being driven by 16-18 year-olds make a difference now.

Back in the day (when I was 16) all the cars used for cruising in NY were Camaros / Firebirds / Grand Nationals / Mustangs. Many of these cars were killed off by the insurance industry.

Maybe their replacements aren't as powerful, and can be made to perform well in a front-end collision in controlled conditions. But I can't help but think that the older, heavier cars that used to be "in style" were safer in the oddball accidents (i.e. sideways into a tree) than the Acuras/Hondas, etc. I think there are studies that show that heavier cars (neglecting SUVs) generally have a better survival rate, right?

The insurance industry forced more powerful cars out of the market. But does that mean that an unsafe driver could drive a less powerful car to the same speed? Just about any car can reach 100MPH these days.

Dave

Sorry Kevin, making cars safer helps but to make a real difference you have to make the drivers safer. Besides, you should have seen the collection of Chevelles, GTOs and 'cudas in my HS lot, in hindsight it didn't matter. You'll notice that in my above post I only covered "driver maturity." I have a whole 'nother rant covering the "any idiot can pass" driver's test that all 50 states think is adequate. Funny how you have to demonstrate your skill at parking a car but not much else to be a lisenced driver.

89magic98

Dave,

I agree, the driver is the most important safety device in the entire car. But once a inexperienced driver loses control of the car, then the other factors have to be considered (such as the cars involved in the accident).

Are younger drivers having more accidents now than they did historically? Or, are these accidents more likely to be fatal because of other factors? I can't say that I know.

I would also think a key-lock that would disable the radio (similar to an airbag disable) would be a good idea for younger drivers. Or maybe something that would only let you tune in AM radio stations (for traffic alerts, etc).

Kurt

Setting aside all factors involving the vehicle or a kid's upbringing (because that is determined by a specific environment), the biggest problem I see is with the states and their licensing programs. It is also the only element of the problem that can be fixed en masse. Not making movies that promote the coolness of street racing isn't quite constitutional or possible. (Rennlist needs to make a movie on the coolness of track days and autoX events...)

In PA, it's a 25 question test to get the permit, six month wait to get the license, then you drive around a parking lot, a few blocks, and parallel park. That's it.

Someone over in Germany or Europe needs to fill me in as I've heard it's much more expensive and a much more detailed process in getting a license compared to over here. I'm just not aware of the specifics.

Matt H

Very hard to get license in England or at least it was when I was there. It also cost a small fortune (to someone that age). Dont know that it make the drivers better but I bet it made the license feel special.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote

AlphaOne

its the same in germany, and im sure some of you can verify that. somthing like 2000 dollars for a liscense. and the test is difficult to boot. we could probably use something like that over here. but then. we could use allot of improvement in too many areas. it hurts my head to even try to think about it. its quite hopeless.