John D.

My thanks - but in all honesty, I look at it from an entirely different perspective.

In other words - it's folks like you and hundreds of thousands throughout the world who have "empowered" this site and invigorated this worldwide community. For that, I simply plan and establish programs and benefits to what those who have empowered me would like to accomplish with this “community”. Is that "power"? I don't think so. In other words - I won't, or can't, due to my personal moral obligations to the Rennlist users and enthusiasts act autonomously - or outside - or counter to - the interests of the majority who have entrusted me to act on their behalf. If I do - then, by all rights and all measures - I'm no longer empowered.

There is perhaps a fine distinction between "power" and "being empowered" - but one leans towards being “autocratic” while the other is established, validated and perpetuated only through trust from others. In that way – they are worlds apart in execution and “vision”. At least in my opinion.

I have a feeling I’ll be taking you up on your kind offer..! Feel free to PM me or pop me an e-mail at johnd@rennlist.com at any time, if you, *Michael.* or others in your area have specific questions, comments or insights, OK?

My best to you,

John

Dave

John, I'm starting to think that you are being wasted here at Rennlist, this is the spirit that has been missing from the American political system for at least a generation IMO.

John D. for President! Now we just have to get the "Rennlist Party" listed in the voting booths!

Seriously, many people want to accomplish something, those that do, often only do it for their own benefit. Few go out and accomplish their goals for those around them.

Thanks for being in that last group!

Chris_924s

200 thousand users cant be wrong..

Swedeboy

LOL - I just thought the same when reading John's post.

Personally, I think a worldwide Rennlist club with certain geographical focal points would be a great idea.

Dave

I figured I couldn't be the only one, but it had to be said by an American first! (I hope I qualify, 14th generation)

Peckster

What makes you think Rennlist isn't a business? It may not be making money yet, but neither do most of the dotcoms.

But it's a great resource, business or not.

Jay Wellwood

I don't think so based on the phone conversations I had last night with numerous people directly involved with this matter.

John D.

and....

I won't comment on the insurance issue as it pertains to the original thread - except to note that it appears to me that Luis & Jay, you folks may be trying to compare "Apples" to "Oranges".

In short, Insurance for ones personal automobile, regardless of country, is a very different form of insurance then the requirement for an "entity" or a “business”.

What’s typically referred to a “Business Insurance”, regardless of whether that entity is for-profit or nonprofit, or a small businesses, etc. – there are also certain types of insurance. The decision about what insurance coverage to carry as elective coverage (over and above those that may be mandated by Federal/State) depends largely on the nature of the business. But the extent of the coverage is bound by the covenants of the policy itself as prescribed by the underwriter. This coverage also varies depending on the business status and/or "product" of that entity, and a risk assessment by both the underwriter and the entity itself.

So, while Luis, you may have a point as a waiver to forfeit your rights to sue the entity, there also needs to be another legal instrument which indemnifies the primary business entity if an incident occurred that involved a third-party not released by your waiver.

Just as an FYI….

John

Luis de Prat

Well, none of the events in the official European Porsche Club I belong to ever bring up the subject of insurance. You're supposed to carry your own.

Unfortunately, this "insurance paranoia" is becoming typically American and I wouldn't be surprised if the PCA hadn't considered finding a way to do as most European car clubs do, and put the burden on the participant, not the club.

YMMV

EDIT: Just saw John D.'s post. Can someone confirm how significant the Euro Clubs' investment in insurance policies is?

icat

I've had to sign a release waiver for just about every PCA event I've ever attended, so I don't think the waiver idea will get you far.

Brian Wilson

I'm not sure about the whole insurance thing. I've never done anything, other than the PCA events, that involve signing anything. You can go to the gokart track and get lit at the bar upstairs and then go downstairs and race... never signing anything. When you drive the Nurburgring, you get your ticket out of a machine and drive up to a parking garage gate and you're on the track. I don't know how it works, but it does. That is one thing that I can credit the germans for being good at.... road construction is another thing!!!

*Michael.*

And telephone and internet service.....

Luis de Prat

In the U.S. perhaps, but as Brian stated, insurance is not as much of a "limiting factor" (if at all) for European car clubs and the thread is about the PCA Germany region fading away for unspecified reasons.

*Michael.*

Actually Jon is getting old and his memory is fading. We have always had to sign a waiver at PCA events and now at the kart track you have to sign your ticket.

Well I hope things work out for club over here, I am moving back to the US in 13 days so it doesn't effect me that much....

Brian Wilson

Read up jerk, i did say "other than PCA events". Man, you're stupid... and that's just a recent thing anyway.

no one get mad, mike sits at a desk down the hall from me and we're friends... for now.