I'm looking for 944 N/A power upgrades
04-23-2004, 04:57 PM
#16
Campeck Rulez
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Originally posted by Bhj0887
Maybe if you did the 3.0 swap ($$$$$), or bore the 2.5 a little, 12.5 compression pistons, agressive cam, headwork always helps. A 951 trans can help your times maybe.
Maybe if you did the 3.0 swap ($$$$$), or bore the 2.5 a little, 12.5 compression pistons, agressive cam, headwork always helps. A 951 trans can help your times maybe.
interesting.
boring out the cylinders?
I was told that would be dangerous.
and with higher compression pistons?
12.5 WOW!!!
how much of a horsepower increase would the compression be?
04-23-2004, 05:00 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
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Well...the S and I think S2 are 10.9:1 stock. 12.5 would make pump gas your sworn enemy! Just by bumping the CR alone, I think it's roughly estimated as ~7hp per full compression point.
04-23-2004, 05:10 PM
#18
Race Director
Originally posted by URIN 2ND
Well, it's no secret how to get power from a N/A motor.
Well, it's no secret how to get power from a N/A motor.
Originally posted by URIN 2ND
But if it's intended for a specific racing class in a certain sanctioning body, it's pointless to even research what power is possible until you know what you're allowed to do to the motor.
But if it's intended for a specific racing class in a certain sanctioning body, it's pointless to even research what power is possible until you know what you're allowed to do to the motor.
Originally posted by URIN 2ND
If you're just trying to get as much as possible, you could max out somewhere near what a stock 951 would make (close to 200 at the wheels) if money was no object.
If you're just trying to get as much as possible, you could max out somewhere near what a stock 951 would make (close to 200 at the wheels) if money was no object.
Originally posted by URIN 2ND
More typically, the basic I/E SCCA runners are getting low-130's to the wheels on basically stock motors. They are allowed a filter, an exhaust, cat delete, and maybe a header system...but that's about it.
More typically, the basic I/E SCCA runners are getting low-130's to the wheels on basically stock motors. They are allowed a filter, an exhaust, cat delete, and maybe a header system...but that's about it.
Originally posted by URIN 2ND
High compression, a ported big valve head and a nice cam would certainly be in order if you want respectable power fro that motor.
High compression, a ported big valve head and a nice cam would certainly be in order if you want respectable power fro that motor.
Originally posted by URIN 2ND
However...and I'm sure many here will agree...you don't *need* gobs of HP to make the 944 competetive on the track.
However...and I'm sure many here will agree...you don't *need* gobs of HP to make the 944 competetive on the track.
Has anyone told you yet that the nitrous is for the car and not the driver? For one thing you need to know what your competition is. For me to be a consistent winner in SCCA ITS I would need about 190 hp to the wheels. Aint' gonna happen. Spec classes are spec classes and don't factor in. PCA racing? Well, considering he's in Europe, I think we can assume it's not PCA racing. How much power he'll need will depend upon the rest of the class.
Originally posted by URIN 2ND
Time and time again I hear of N/A 944's hanging with or beating vehicles with considerably more power. This car is all about balance. It can get out of it's own way, has a decent TQ curve, has good roadholding, and excellent handling characteristics.
Time and time again I hear of N/A 944's hanging with or beating vehicles with considerably more power. This car is all about balance. It can get out of it's own way, has a decent TQ curve, has good roadholding, and excellent handling characteristics.
Originally posted by URIN 2ND
I think to be competitive on a road course, your money may be better spent on a solid suspension, and there's a number of choices to be made there!
I think to be competitive on a road course, your money may be better spent on a solid suspension, and there's a number of choices to be made there!
Originally posted by URIN 2ND
At any rate...expect anywhere from 125 wheel HP (completely stock early 944) all the way up to the 190's wheel HP (completely built with mucho dinero invested, we're talking taking out a 2nd mortgage here). The basic bolt ons should get you between 130 and 140 at the wheels, thereabouts.
At any rate...expect anywhere from 125 wheel HP (completely stock early 944) all the way up to the 190's wheel HP (completely built with mucho dinero invested, we're talking taking out a 2nd mortgage here). The basic bolt ons should get you between 130 and 140 at the wheels, thereabouts.
04-23-2004, 05:11 PM
#19
Race Director
Originally posted by URIN 2ND
Well...the S and I think S2 are 10.9:1 stock. 12.5 would make pump gas your sworn enemy! Just by bumping the CR alone, I think it's roughly estimated as ~7hp per full compression point.
Well...the S and I think S2 are 10.9:1 stock. 12.5 would make pump gas your sworn enemy! Just by bumping the CR alone, I think it's roughly estimated as ~7hp per full compression point.
04-23-2004, 05:14 PM
#20
Campeck Rulez
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Originally posted by URIN 2ND
Well...the S and I think S2 are 10.9:1 stock. 12.5 would make pump gas your sworn enemy! Just by bumping the CR alone, I think it's roughly estimated as ~7hp per full compression point.
Well...the S and I think S2 are 10.9:1 stock. 12.5 would make pump gas your sworn enemy! Just by bumping the CR alone, I think it's roughly estimated as ~7hp per full compression point.
hmmmmm.
what gas would you pump then?
and if i were to get the S head I would need a set of S pistons as well?
04-23-2004, 05:15 PM
#21
Campeck Rulez
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and wouldnt if you changed compression you need to modify the dme?
and if you got a racing cam with that much compression would the valves get knocked up?
knocked up...heh
and if you got a racing cam with that much compression would the valves get knocked up?
knocked up...heh
04-23-2004, 05:16 PM
#22
Campeck Rulez
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wow.
I just hit my 1000 mark.
THANKS TO EVERYONE HERE FOR YOUR HELP AND ANSWERING THESE QUESTIONS AND THE FREE MEMBERSHIP!!
I really do appreciate it!
I just hit my 1000 mark.
THANKS TO EVERYONE HERE FOR YOUR HELP AND ANSWERING THESE QUESTIONS AND THE FREE MEMBERSHIP!!
I really do appreciate it!
04-23-2004, 05:27 PM
#23
Three Wheelin'
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Wow Geo...you're a real a$$hole! And don't let the smiley fool you. I truly mean it! 
Boy, if your driving ability were half of your ego, look out Schumacher!
I'm pretty wide off the mark? Maybe that's because my mark is based on real-world results, and you're generalizing numbers. M758 and his 944 Spec Racing website is where that number came from, and there are multiple dynos of Spec cars with those exact mods making low-130's.
Another user dynoed his stock '84 a couple weeks ago and posted his 125 WHP.
The higher numbers were based on Anderson's work and conversations I've had with Milledge. If you want to argue their results or opinions, be my guest. You know how to contact them.
So...you're either telling me that their dynos were incorrect...or you were just caught flapping your gums without doing a little legwork yourself.
Most of your comments were equally worthless and/or incorrect. I don't know why you chose to pick apart my post...it's all pretty general and widely known info. I was only trying to help.
Boy, if your driving ability were half of your ego, look out Schumacher!
More typically, the basic I/E SCCA runners are getting low-130's to the wheels on basically stock motors. They are allowed a filter, an exhaust, cat delete, and maybe a header system...but that's about it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Commonly available intakes, headers, and exhausts won't do much of anything for these engines. And you're pretty wide of the mark on output to the wheels (about 10 hp less).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Commonly available intakes, headers, and exhausts won't do much of anything for these engines. And you're pretty wide of the mark on output to the wheels (about 10 hp less).
Another user dynoed his stock '84 a couple weeks ago and posted his 125 WHP.
The higher numbers were based on Anderson's work and conversations I've had with Milledge. If you want to argue their results or opinions, be my guest. You know how to contact them.
So...you're either telling me that their dynos were incorrect...or you were just caught flapping your gums without doing a little legwork yourself.
Most of your comments were equally worthless and/or incorrect. I don't know why you chose to pick apart my post...it's all pretty general and widely known info. I was only trying to help.
04-23-2004, 05:31 PM
#24
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131.7 WHP...
132 WHP...
133 WHP...
...should I post more, or is your foot wedged deep enough down your throat yet? Just let me know, there's plenty more where those came from.
132 WHP...
133 WHP...
...should I post more, or is your foot wedged deep enough down your throat yet? Just let me know, there's plenty more where those came from.
04-23-2004, 05:44 PM
#25
Race Director
Anders,
Have you friend write to Jon Milledge. Jon has done extensive brake dyno testing with these engines. He knows which heads flow better than others and I'm pretty sure he know quite well what valve cuts will work best as well as a host of other things, although the valve cuts I'm sure is proprietary information.
He can advise on which cams would work best as well as cam timing. He has done extensive dyno testing with headers and exhausts. He knows exactly how to make power with these engines.
He has a "ITS Organizer" for an SCCA racing class that discusses all aspects of building a car for this class. It 's $100 and may not be worth it for the class your friend is building a car for, but it might be - espcially for the discussion of ideal factory engine components.
Have you friend write to Jon Milledge. Jon has done extensive brake dyno testing with these engines. He knows which heads flow better than others and I'm pretty sure he know quite well what valve cuts will work best as well as a host of other things, although the valve cuts I'm sure is proprietary information.
He can advise on which cams would work best as well as cam timing. He has done extensive dyno testing with headers and exhausts. He knows exactly how to make power with these engines.
He has a "ITS Organizer" for an SCCA racing class that discusses all aspects of building a car for this class. It 's $100 and may not be worth it for the class your friend is building a car for, but it might be - espcially for the discussion of ideal factory engine components.
04-23-2004, 05:45 PM
#26
Race Director
Originally posted by Campeck
and wouldnt if you changed compression you need to modify the dme?
and if you got a racing cam with that much compression would the valves get knocked up?
knocked up...heh
and wouldnt if you changed compression you need to modify the dme?
and if you got a racing cam with that much compression would the valves get knocked up?
knocked up...heh
04-23-2004, 06:02 PM
#29
Race Director
Originally posted by URIN 2ND
Wow Geo...you're a real a$$hole! And don't let the smiley fool you. I truly mean it!
Wow Geo...you're a real a$$hole! And don't let the smiley fool you. I truly mean it!
Originally posted by URIN 2ND
Boy, if your driving ability were half of your ego, look out Schumacher!
Boy, if your driving ability were half of your ego, look out Schumacher!
Originally posted by URIN 2ND
I'm pretty wide off the mark? Maybe that's because my mark is based on real-world results, and you're generalizing numbers. M758 and his 944 Spec Racing website is where that number came from, and there are multiple dynos of Spec cars with those exact mods making low-130's.
I'm pretty wide off the mark? Maybe that's because my mark is based on real-world results, and you're generalizing numbers. M758 and his 944 Spec Racing website is where that number came from, and there are multiple dynos of Spec cars with those exact mods making low-130's.
Originally posted by URIN 2ND
The higher numbers were based on Anderson's work and conversations I've had with Milledge. If you want to argue their results or opinions, be my guest. You know how to contact them.
The higher numbers were based on Anderson's work and conversations I've had with Milledge. If you want to argue their results or opinions, be my guest. You know how to contact them.
My memory was incorrect on the dyno stuff. I admit it.
I stand by the rest.
04-23-2004, 06:09 PM
#30
Race Director
Originally posted by Campeck
well.
I mean wouldnt the valves go down deeper and the piston come up more?
and hit?
well.
I mean wouldnt the valves go down deeper and the piston come up more?
and hit?
What I think you are thinking about it volumetric efficiency which is how well the cylinder is actually filled. Cams do affect this.
Interference between the valves and the piston are another matter.