Hi, I've read to my heart's content but am hoping for a couple nudges to figure out a slow start condition. It usually takes about 30-60 seconds to get going. First couple of tries usually no response whatsoever. Couple tries later, starter begins to engage. By the 4th or 5th try it starts up (and runs great). Here are some facts.

1. 1988 944 NA
2. Battery is in good condition.
3. Starter and alternator were bench tested
4. There is an aftermarket antitheft something in place. I do not see any boxes under the dash for this, but do see some extra wires around the 9 pin molex by the breakbooster. To start the car, running lights need to be in the on position.

Things I've done to try and resolve

1. New battery cables
2. New high torque starter
3. solid state DME relay
4. engine was pulled and rebuilt
5. All known grounds have been cleaned (by the battery, by the popup lights, two on the bellhousing, two under the dash, two in the trunk

The slow start existed prior to all of the above and has not seen any improvement. I do not think it is related to the ignition switch (it's not like it dies in the accessory position) nor fuel pressure (because i can hear the pump thanks to the solid state relay and the starter isnt even trying to engage on the first crank)

My next guess is it is related to the antitheft crap, but i dont know how to test that (ive never really figured out a multimeter).


Given all of the above, what would you all try next?

 

Adding some photos in case the aftermarket crap is is worth troubleshooting.


PHOTO 1 _ shows the two pin connector. not sure if this setup is stock, seems like something was done to it.
.


PHOTO 2. Trying to show the nest of aftermarket crap and my very basic understanding of the wiring

PHOTO 3 - Another angle, but same nest

A

 

My response assumes I understand the problem- starter will not turn over until several attempts of turning the key.
First of all, if the lights need to be on to start then the wiring is not right and needs to be fixed. That relay is suspect since 1- it's not OEM and 2 - it is connected to the lights.
You can bypass everything by jumping the terminals on the starter and see if it cranks. If it does begins tracing the wire from the starter to the ignition switch. It could be the switch based on what you described.
Good luck

 

Given the starter is brand new (not remanufcatured), and the condition is the same as with the old starter - then yeh it seems related to something between the ignition and the starter, which that nest of wires sits between. I'm just not really sure how to go about "tracing the wrire from the starter to the ignition switch."

 

Go from the little wire..that connects to the solenoid..That's the one you want. You might be able to backprobe it to the switch or to the start relay. Go to the start relay next and see if the same color wire goes to it. Then check it with a multimeter on both ends for an open circuit. Possibly when the engine was out, it got damaged, or was just old and corroded internally. From there, look at the color of wires coming off the relay. Then look at the start switch..See same color of wires going from one to the other? check those out for continuity if they are the same colors.... do you have the WSM or a Haynes for your car? Both have wiring diagrams with color coding..Just remember..Brown is ground and black can be a hot wire...not like American cars.HTH some. .

 

Can you trace the wires on the relay and tell us exactly where they go (i.e. not just "headlights", something like "white wire on headlight connector") and what number terminal they connect to on the aftermarket relay? Maybe the aftermarket relay is an anti-theft device that allows starter solenoid power when the lights are on. With this info we should be able to determine what the relay is supposed to do.

 

Michael, thanks. I did some tracing and was able to cut the relay out of the system, returning the starter > ignition connection to stock. It's definitely some sort of antitheft hack. I think it helped a little (still slow start, but started on first key turn). I may replace the whole run and see if that is the issue.

Would the next stop be to try a new ignition switch?

 

Maybe the relay was to flash the lights when the alarm went off?

 

I guess I'm not clear either on the problem.

Is what you're describing:

A) the starter won't engage for 30 - 60 s, after you turned on the parking lights

or

B) the engine won't catch and start until there's been 30 - 60 s of cranking the starter

I think the root causes will be very different, even if you've already started to address the aftermarket wiring that you found.

Cheers

 

Hmm, not quite either. Sorry if I've described it poorly. Here's the workflow - ignore the headlight relay thing.

1. Turn the key. usually nothing happens. no clicking, no starter engagement. Repeat a couple times.
2. Turn the key, starter engages (sounds like it is dragging). But starter is literally brand new installed yesterday - it's the aftermarket high torque one. The problem existed before the new starter was installed.

 

Just closing the loop on this. I fully removed the aftermarket relay and associated wires. Car starts good now . Thanks all for the confidence to trace the wires!