RANT: Airline kept my fuel pump
04-08-2004, 05:47 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
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Interesting...
They would keep it from you because it's some sort of "weapon..."
Then they sell it on EBay as a fuel pump and pocket 100 bucks profit.
Explain to me again how this isn't stealing?!
No way I would let that fly (no pun intended).
This is supposedly for "our safety." But let's think about this. The clueless people who kept your item did so because they had no idea what it is. Couldn't they make the OPPOSITE mistake, and fail to identify some sort of REAL weapon?
It seems to me that if they truly cared for our safety, they would hire someone who actually knows how to identify a potential weapon. Not some moron who can't tell a lug nut from an AK-47.
They would keep it from you because it's some sort of "weapon..."
Then they sell it on EBay as a fuel pump and pocket 100 bucks profit.
Explain to me again how this isn't stealing?!
No way I would let that fly (no pun intended).
This is supposedly for "our safety." But let's think about this. The clueless people who kept your item did so because they had no idea what it is. Couldn't they make the OPPOSITE mistake, and fail to identify some sort of REAL weapon?
It seems to me that if they truly cared for our safety, they would hire someone who actually knows how to identify a potential weapon. Not some moron who can't tell a lug nut from an AK-47.
04-09-2004, 04:58 AM
#17
Burning Brakes
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944_S_TYPE, Sir,
There are provisions for the transport of hazmat materials via commercial airline planes. I am sure a old, used, dried up Porsche fuel pump could be shipped. It all has to do with packaging and documentation. Listed below is an FAA bulletin specifically citing aircraft fuel control units. Go to the FAA link below for all Dangerous Goods shipping info.
PS...You mean "Scare Bus....." right?? If it ain't a Boeing, I'm not going!!
FAA LINK
Federal Aviation Administration
Civil Aviation Security
Dangerous Goods Advisory Bulletin
Information of Concern to Air Carriers
Subject: Fuel Control Units
Number: DGAB-98-02
INFORMATION: Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Dangerous Goods and Cargo Security inspectors are encountering fuel control units containing residual amounts of aviation fuel or flammable cleaning solvents which are being transported by air as undeclared or improperly declared shipments. These units are common aircraft parts considered to be air carrier company material (COMAT) and often are being returned to the manufacturer for ongoing maintenance. The units typically are packaged inside a standard fiberboard box, and many of these packages are leaking. If residual amounts of flammable aviation fuel or cleaning solvents remain in the unit, domestic and international hazardous materials regulations apply and the unit must be prepared for transport as follows:
49 CFR
A fuel control unit containing residual aviation fuel is properly described under 49 CFR as follows:
Fuel, aviation, turbine engine, 3 UN 1863, PG (II or III)
or
Residue, last contained Fuel, aviation, turbine engine 3, UN 1863, PG (II or III)
The unit may contain a flammable cleaning solvent instead of the fuel and thus more accurately described using a technical name listed in the 49 CFR 172.101 Hazardous Materials Table or generic description such as "flammable liquid, n.o.s." with the addition of the technical name. (See 49 CFR 172.203(k))
The outer packaging must be marked with the proper shipping name and identification number and display a Class 3 label.
The unit qualifies for limited quantity exceptions if the net capacity of the unit is not more than 1 L (for PG II) or 5 L (for PG III). Net capacity means the unit is not designed to contain more than 1 L or 5 L, respectively. If the unit meets the net capacity limitation, it can be packaged in a non-specification (not UN tested and certified) packaging. However, the package must meet general packaging standards, such as applicable requirements in 49 CFR 173.24 and 173.24a for strength, impact resistance, cushioning, absorbency, and compatibility with the lading. In addition, the fuel control unit must be capable of withstanding pressure requirements in 49 CFR 173.27(c). If the fuel control unit cannot withstand this pressure without leaking, then it needs to be packed in a metal or plastic inner container that can meet the pressure requirements.
ICAO/IATA
A more specific shipping description with corresponding packaging provisions for this type of apparatus has been adopted by ICAO/IATA. At present, this entry is under consideration for adoption by the UN Committee of Experts and the US is planning to propose its inclusion into the Hazardous Materials Regulations.
A fuel control unit containing residual aviation fuel or flammable cleaning solvent, prepared for shipment under the ICAO Technical Instructions, would be described as follows:
Dangerous goods in apparatus, 8001
or
Dangerous goods in machinery, 8001
The shipper’s declaration must indicate that the shipment is being made under ICAO provisions.
Marking, labeling and packaging must conform to Packing Instruction 916. The outer package must be marked with the proper shipping name and labeled according to each hazard in the apparatus (e.g., Class 3). No UN performance tests are required. General packaging requirements such as strength, compatibility with lading, cushioning and absorbency must be met. Total net quantity of fuel in one unit must not exceed 0.5 L.
Packaging
It has been reported that 60-90% of current packages are leaking and, therefore, not in compliance with either 49 CFR or ICAO/IATA general packaging standards. In order for the unit to be properly packaged, all necessary steps must be taken to ensure the integrity of the package. This may include placing the unit in an inner receptacle, such as plastic or metal container compatible with the lading, surrounding the unit with adequate absorbent material to contain any liquid that may leak, and cushioning the inner receptacle within the outer packaging.
Non-regulated fuel control units
Fuel control units which have been re-filled with a non-regulated material prior to being shipped to the maintenance facility are not subject to either domestic or international hazardous materials regulations.
Charles N. Lovinski
Program Manager
Dangerous Goods and Cargo Security
There are provisions for the transport of hazmat materials via commercial airline planes. I am sure a old, used, dried up Porsche fuel pump could be shipped. It all has to do with packaging and documentation. Listed below is an FAA bulletin specifically citing aircraft fuel control units. Go to the FAA link below for all Dangerous Goods shipping info.
PS...You mean "Scare Bus....." right?? If it ain't a Boeing, I'm not going!!
FAA LINK
Federal Aviation Administration
Civil Aviation Security
Dangerous Goods Advisory Bulletin
Information of Concern to Air Carriers
Subject: Fuel Control Units
Number: DGAB-98-02
INFORMATION: Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Dangerous Goods and Cargo Security inspectors are encountering fuel control units containing residual amounts of aviation fuel or flammable cleaning solvents which are being transported by air as undeclared or improperly declared shipments. These units are common aircraft parts considered to be air carrier company material (COMAT) and often are being returned to the manufacturer for ongoing maintenance. The units typically are packaged inside a standard fiberboard box, and many of these packages are leaking. If residual amounts of flammable aviation fuel or cleaning solvents remain in the unit, domestic and international hazardous materials regulations apply and the unit must be prepared for transport as follows:
49 CFR
A fuel control unit containing residual aviation fuel is properly described under 49 CFR as follows:
Fuel, aviation, turbine engine, 3 UN 1863, PG (II or III)
or
Residue, last contained Fuel, aviation, turbine engine 3, UN 1863, PG (II or III)
The unit may contain a flammable cleaning solvent instead of the fuel and thus more accurately described using a technical name listed in the 49 CFR 172.101 Hazardous Materials Table or generic description such as "flammable liquid, n.o.s." with the addition of the technical name. (See 49 CFR 172.203(k))
The outer packaging must be marked with the proper shipping name and identification number and display a Class 3 label.
The unit qualifies for limited quantity exceptions if the net capacity of the unit is not more than 1 L (for PG II) or 5 L (for PG III). Net capacity means the unit is not designed to contain more than 1 L or 5 L, respectively. If the unit meets the net capacity limitation, it can be packaged in a non-specification (not UN tested and certified) packaging. However, the package must meet general packaging standards, such as applicable requirements in 49 CFR 173.24 and 173.24a for strength, impact resistance, cushioning, absorbency, and compatibility with the lading. In addition, the fuel control unit must be capable of withstanding pressure requirements in 49 CFR 173.27(c). If the fuel control unit cannot withstand this pressure without leaking, then it needs to be packed in a metal or plastic inner container that can meet the pressure requirements.
ICAO/IATA
A more specific shipping description with corresponding packaging provisions for this type of apparatus has been adopted by ICAO/IATA. At present, this entry is under consideration for adoption by the UN Committee of Experts and the US is planning to propose its inclusion into the Hazardous Materials Regulations.
A fuel control unit containing residual aviation fuel or flammable cleaning solvent, prepared for shipment under the ICAO Technical Instructions, would be described as follows:
Dangerous goods in apparatus, 8001
or
Dangerous goods in machinery, 8001
The shipper’s declaration must indicate that the shipment is being made under ICAO provisions.
Marking, labeling and packaging must conform to Packing Instruction 916. The outer package must be marked with the proper shipping name and labeled according to each hazard in the apparatus (e.g., Class 3). No UN performance tests are required. General packaging requirements such as strength, compatibility with lading, cushioning and absorbency must be met. Total net quantity of fuel in one unit must not exceed 0.5 L.
Packaging
It has been reported that 60-90% of current packages are leaking and, therefore, not in compliance with either 49 CFR or ICAO/IATA general packaging standards. In order for the unit to be properly packaged, all necessary steps must be taken to ensure the integrity of the package. This may include placing the unit in an inner receptacle, such as plastic or metal container compatible with the lading, surrounding the unit with adequate absorbent material to contain any liquid that may leak, and cushioning the inner receptacle within the outer packaging.
Non-regulated fuel control units
Fuel control units which have been re-filled with a non-regulated material prior to being shipped to the maintenance facility are not subject to either domestic or international hazardous materials regulations.
Charles N. Lovinski
Program Manager
Dangerous Goods and Cargo Security
04-09-2004, 08:08 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Originally posted by iloveporsches
I'd try and get your relatively new part back. A new one is $150+.
I'd try and get your relatively new part back. A new one is $150+.
04-09-2004, 09:57 PM
#22
Unaffiliated
Well, I'm not supposed to mention this, so please keep it a secret. All of us airport employees have access to a room in the basement where they put the "conf" confiscated stuff...and I think some is "lost" or "unclaimed" luggage. You wouldn't believe how many bag tags get accidentally torn off going thru the conveyors. We're allowed to go get stuff 1 item per person per month. Sometimes, if we help out an airline avoid a delay or a pilot goofs up, they give us special conf privleges, which sometimes as much booty as we can hold in two arms. My buddy got a set of golf clubs and another guy got a SWEET leather jacket. The best I've ever gotten was a serious hunting knife. Man, I'd freak out if I found a Porsche fuel pump in there... I'll have to look closer next time. They had enough stuff in there for a small army after 9/11. Really, though.. don't mention this to anyone. Somehow it is probably sort of illegal. But what are they going to do, sell it? That might be unethical.
04-09-2004, 10:07 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Yeah, my then 12-year old dog once nearly wound up in that "conf room" when the baggage tag fell off his crate. Fortunately, I had labeled the crate itself and they called me from the connecting location asking if I had "lost my dog." More like they were the ones who had lost it.
Picked up any crated critters in the conf room lately, Dan?
Picked up any crated critters in the conf room lately, Dan?
04-09-2004, 10:38 PM
#24
Pro
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to digress a bit, Barbour coats are awesome! one of the best coats you can buy. I guess they can be a little paramillitary-esque. No one around here has rally heard of them, cept for some of the land rover guys.
04-09-2004, 10:53 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
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As was said, it's not a security issue it's a safety issue. If it contained fuel at some point it could have residual still inside it and that makes it hazmat.
I know the thing was dry but they were erring on the side of safety.
I don't remember all the rules on limited quanties but it doesn't have to be in UN pop packaging, but it might still have to be labeled.
It's been about a year since I was certified and I only ship radioactive.
I know the thing was dry but they were erring on the side of safety.
I don't remember all the rules on limited quanties but it doesn't have to be in UN pop packaging, but it might still have to be labeled.
It's been about a year since I was certified and I only ship radioactive.
04-10-2004, 01:08 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Adam, I had no problem accepting that possibility, which is why I disclosed the item at check in.
My complaint is that the airline gave me zero options to recover the item, even when I offered to have someone pick it up, or to issue a FedEx call tag for it.
My complaint is that the airline gave me zero options to recover the item, even when I offered to have someone pick it up, or to issue a FedEx call tag for it.
04-10-2004, 01:16 AM
#27
Burning Brakes
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The Airline farked you basicially......
They could have been more accomidating, arranged shipping ect.
We had an international inspector buy a new chainsaw in Utah, put it in his baggage, when he got to DC (Dulles apt) they smelled fuel opened it up and there was gas in the tank.
We retrieved it for him, gave it to a friend of his and then got it shipped to Amsterdam
They could have been more accomidating, arranged shipping ect.
We had an international inspector buy a new chainsaw in Utah, put it in his baggage, when he got to DC (Dulles apt) they smelled fuel opened it up and there was gas in the tank.
We retrieved it for him, gave it to a friend of his and then got it shipped to Amsterdam
04-10-2004, 01:43 AM
#28
Big thirst, Sore Thumbs
Rennlist Member
Napoleon
Rennlist Member
Napoleon
When I was working down in Western N Carolina, there tweren't nothing to do.
Always flying out of Logan, Boston MA. An inherintly anti-gun state/city. I'd bring my guns down for something to do on the weekends.
The first time it was odd opening up two long rifle cases and two pistol cases on the ticket counter of the Delta counter.
Then a few weeks later I flew Continental. Only brought one Pistol. Had a lock that went up through the magazine well, then out the ejection port. Bright yellow. Then a bright yellow chamber flag sticking down the chamber and out the ejection port. Knowing the deal I was ready for inspection.
Lady at the ticket counter asked me to take it out and show it was un-loaded. I take it out with a bunch of plastic sticking out showing it was safe. She looks at it and said "How am I supposed to know it's un-loaded?"
I think "If you don't know, why do you need to inspect it?" So I point out how it can't be loaded because of the bright yellow plastic.
So then I start closing up to put it back in the checked luggage, another ticket agent comes over and almost screams "YOU CAN"T CARRY THAT ON THE PLANE!"
"I know, I'm putting it in my checked luggage." <Now go away and leave us alone>
I put my bag, with the gun case on the top, and the top of the luggage open so she can put the tag inside. She goes to tie it on the outside. I say "Excuse me Ms. But you have to put it in the bag." "No the rules say I have to put it on the bag." "Your wrong, Federal law says you have to put it IN the bag."
You see. For years the law was it had to be on the bag. But so many bags with firearms were "lost" that they changed the law to put it in, on the very top, of the bag.
She refused until I asked for a manager.
On another note, My Ex had to toss out a carton opener (razor knife) when she came down to see me before I went to Saudi during Gulf War I. She almost missed the plane, security gave her such a hard time.
She worked in a Book wharehouse, she had the things all over place, and just happen to put one in her bag.
Always flying out of Logan, Boston MA. An inherintly anti-gun state/city. I'd bring my guns down for something to do on the weekends.
The first time it was odd opening up two long rifle cases and two pistol cases on the ticket counter of the Delta counter.
Then a few weeks later I flew Continental. Only brought one Pistol. Had a lock that went up through the magazine well, then out the ejection port. Bright yellow. Then a bright yellow chamber flag sticking down the chamber and out the ejection port. Knowing the deal I was ready for inspection.
Lady at the ticket counter asked me to take it out and show it was un-loaded. I take it out with a bunch of plastic sticking out showing it was safe. She looks at it and said "How am I supposed to know it's un-loaded?"
I think "If you don't know, why do you need to inspect it?" So I point out how it can't be loaded because of the bright yellow plastic.
So then I start closing up to put it back in the checked luggage, another ticket agent comes over and almost screams "YOU CAN"T CARRY THAT ON THE PLANE!"
"I know, I'm putting it in my checked luggage." <Now go away and leave us alone>
I put my bag, with the gun case on the top, and the top of the luggage open so she can put the tag inside. She goes to tie it on the outside. I say "Excuse me Ms. But you have to put it in the bag." "No the rules say I have to put it on the bag." "Your wrong, Federal law says you have to put it IN the bag."
You see. For years the law was it had to be on the bag. But so many bags with firearms were "lost" that they changed the law to put it in, on the very top, of the bag.
She refused until I asked for a manager.
On another note, My Ex had to toss out a carton opener (razor knife) when she came down to see me before I went to Saudi during Gulf War I. She almost missed the plane, security gave her such a hard time.
She worked in a Book wharehouse, she had the things all over place, and just happen to put one in her bag.
04-10-2004, 01:47 AM
#29
Nerd Herder
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Logan is almost as bad as O'hare. Those bastards at Logan confiscated a 12 year old bottle of Anjeo from me. 26 bucks US shot to hell.
I missed the party in the "conf" room.
Yes, it was flammable....
I missed the party in the "conf" room.
Yes, it was flammable....
