Cass944

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2440960485

and i thought turbo mods were expencive...

Lead Foot 944

Interesting, I can't wait to here the responses on that..........

DAmian

FSAEracer03

That is just plain redic.! I'm planning on buying an NA soon for about that price... there's not a chance in you know where that I'll be looking to upgrade to MAF for a thousand bones. You can most likely get 14hp from a K&N and chip.

For people serious about upgrading their NAs... why not have a sealed ram-box with a conical K&N (custom weekend job that might cost a total of $100), add a good chip (Steve R.'s go for what? $150?) and install a racing cat and muffler ($250-350). For $500-600 you can easily add over 20 ponies, maybe even get closer to 30 depending on the cat-flow and location and design of the new airbox.

Cass944

Exactly....

I looked at who the seller is. 9xauto... Makes sence now

Porsche-O-Phile

I seriously doubt a cone filter gives you any more performance (there have been numerous posts on this here and on Pelican Parts). Air is warmer and the cone filters typically let in more particulate matter than the stock ones. The headers / cat system would certainly help some though. . .

I don't even know if a replacement chip is worth it on the n/a's.

FSAEracer03

Conical filters left in the stock location don't really help, no. I don't have any dyno proven facts to back this up, but I don't think they hurt the performance either for this reason; if you drive your stock airbox equipped (sp?) around for, say 10 minutes, and pop the hood. Touch the airbox and tell me it was putting colder air into your engine

Conical filters CAN help out when sealed though. A heat shield that acts as a ramair box can not only supply cooler air better, when supplied with a fresh air source from the front of the car, it allows the cooler air to enter the box and only escape one way... throught the intake.

As for chips, I'm told a decent NA chip can get you 10 hp and more. A far cry from the near 50 hp that our hairdryer cars get, but hey, it's hp!

mmmbeer

A ricer webpage would have claimed 30HP from that mod... there is a difference between REAL power and the power you can read about on K&N filter packages.

Tuning a NA is WAY more expensive than turboconverting or tuning a already turbocharged car. $ per HP that is...

The 2.5L NA is very hard to tune. Especially the euroversion which have 163HP due to not so strict emission regulations. 30HP on intake, chip and exhaust seem a bit optimistic too me... any documentation? Ofcoure the 150HP (de-tunded) US version have greater potential and will have a larger powerincrease from chip tuning than the euro version.

Regards:
Eirik Kvello-Aune
www.944968.com

FSAEracer03

Nope, no documentation, just guestimating from gains I've seen in cars with similar size engines with these modifications. I actually don't doubt that with a custom intake utilizing ramair from a cold source, a freer flowing exhaust and chips that an NA could get about 170hp. If not, I'm fairly sure that a larger bore throttle body and hotter-spark ignition system could get help it reach and pass this number without too much hastle.

[EDIT:] Has anyone tried the mods that I listen on their early NA's and dyno tested the results? I'm really curious now as I might be putting some of these on an NA this summer if/when I purchase a project car

Predator

Before I was "converted to the dark side", My 2.5 na made 192.5 hp at the crank. Recipe: Bursch hedder with Jet Hot coating, 2.5 " custom exhaust with Flowmaster, ported, polished, and port matched head and intake, Web camshaft, Big Bore throttle body with custom ram air filter, custom chip. I had a 'good' stock motor that produced 154 hp. This additional hp was at a cost of $178 per hp, with me doing most of the labor. As you can tell, I was desperate for hp! My converted car currently produces 370 hp at a bargain $37.00 per hp.

Duke

At least they're realistic about the HP gains in the ad..

hacker-pschorr

I have no idea how the 8V's work, but on my 16V s I can guarantee the stock airbox is pulling in much cooler air than what's under the hood.

Dyno results? Not on 944's, but I have witnessed a few Corvette's and camaro/firebirds that lost HP with cone filters. This was on a Dyno with the hood open and a fan blowing over the engine, imagine how hot the filter is with the hood down.

Chips are a tradeoff. Yes you get more HP, usually because he rev limiter is raised by 500rpm or so. Low end is usually traded for top end power. To get real power, it takes more than a chip and a filter. When Porsche wanted to increase the power of the 944 they bumped the displacement by .2 or .5 liters and/or added a 2nd cam.

A cone filter routed to the front of the car between the headlights (S2 location) might help.

ERAU-944

FSAE - what the heck are you talking about!!! our cars came with cold air intake stock. do you think porsche would have spent the $ to put that in there if it wasn't functional? touch your intake after driving around. yes its hot, but the air inside it isn't. if you drive around your town for 10 minutes at 25 or 35, yes the air inside the engine bay is gonna get hot, but if you're doing laps on a track, i'll bet for sure that box is sucking cooler air. thats why all the racers take the snorkel off and put a bigger hose on the thing going into the fender.

anyhow, i also dont think the cones are that bad if you're moving, but who can argue with 1 sec faster a lap at moroso, all things equal but the filter box vs cone filter...

-Mike-

Peckster

Yeah, of course the box is hot, but it's not a very effective heat exchanger. It would be hotter if it was pulling in air from the engine compartment.

FSAEracer03

Hacker, I've actually seen losses on the very same cars as well, but that was due to poor placement as the dyno operators said, as my boss said, and even the owners (or any self-respecting car guy) admitted. I've seen gains however from a simple change to conical filters when the location getting a "breeze" from outside and kept away from engine heat. It was actually more apperent with smaller engines, though it might be attributed to ****tier intake design to start off with. When the filter is surrounded by a heat shield that effectively seals it off, not only is the air coming in protected (partially) from engine heat, it is forced into the intake to create a ramair effect.

Mike... lap times, now THAT catches my attention. Give me details and photos! I'm listening!!

ERAU-944

haha, this was a few years ago... pitting with my 951 owning buddy jason for nort northams crew out of orlando. 924S, all sorts of goodies on it, but stock box with dryer hose to the fender. jason remarked to me that the guys said there was a second difference between the box and a cone/open intake. i'd beleive it, i notice hesitation with my box top cut off driving around the city. the intake noise is nice though

-Mike-