Porsche-O-Phile

I agree with Baron - some of the new rides coming out are awfully nice, but the pricing has gotten absolutely ridiculous. . . I've never bought a new car and doubt I ever will unless I hit the lottery or something. You go in, go through the hassle of a dealership, then drive the thing home, in which time it loses probably 20% of its value, and then you're locked into an outrageous payment (usually) for the next 4 or 5 years (or more)! AND you have to carry the expensive insurance, which I personally find kind of offensive (they make YOU pay out the nose - keeping the insurance companies rich, in order to keep the banks rich if someone hits you!) I don't mean to rant, but I'd rather take my oldie but goodie any day. Since book values / depreciation rates are intended to keep people buying new cars (among other things), if you buy an older car like these and are able to take care of it and not get it wrecked on you, you can take advantage of that system for YOUR (not the banks' or insurance companies') good.

Plus, it's fun to work on 'em. . .

Think of the basic / personal economics this way: A new piece of crap Focus or Civic is still going to probably be a $250-ish a month payment, give or take. Add to that the difference in insurance cost per month and it's at LEAST $300 over what it costs to operate the 944 with a little bit more insurance coverage than state minimum requirements. That comes out to $300 x 12 months = $3,600 annually. I doubt you'll end up performing $3,600 per year in maintenance on your old car unless it's a very unusual case - certainly not year-to-year!

You can do an awful lot of maintenance for $3,600 per year and still break even - and that's not the routine stuff like oil & plug changes either, since you'd have to do that stuff on a new car too!

New cars make no, nada, zero economic sense - they're an emotional decision only. That said, if I had to get a new one, I'd look at the Miata MX5 TURBO (yes, they're starting to make a turbo) - 178hp. Pretty respectable and fun.

seb928s

I agree with everything you said. Look at the Boxster you can find them in the low to mid 20's. The only way I would buy a New Porsche is if I had money to throw out. I'm not saying the new 911 is a bad car or the Boxster S just that they will go so much in the first year alone plus you are stuck paying it off. That be said driving an 951 is so much cheaper then driving any new car on the road maybe no the kia and crap like that but civic yes. I know a friend of mine was paying 400$ a month just for the car then his insurance was around 150$ only one month. I pay around 88$ a month for crappy liability insurance and some work to the car once in awhile. I would maybe buy the "New" car few years down the road when the prices are reasonable. I wouldn't mind seeing more Porsche models and esp. something cheap like an 914 low end model. It doesn't have to be the fastest in its class just needs to be well balanced all around. Thinking of a price around 20-25k new wouldn't be that bad pick one up after few years when it's used

Baron009

Used cars definitly make sense economically, but it is nice to own a car from day one. When you buy a used car you have no idea of how it was looked after really. With that said, I probably would end up getting a used car, but I want one that is only a few years old at most.

When i was looking for a car I was considering buying a new Cav z24, or close to a new one at least, but I went with the 944na for a few reasons. Handling, quality, 'feel', and then a bit was prestige. When 944's become scarse or impractical for daily use, what then. At least if they introduce a new 4cyl we can get them after a couple years of use for a very decent price.

Oh, and the SRT4 might be fast, but I doubt it will last 20 years and still be in as good shape as most Porsches.


Heretic! Burn him!!

Just kidding. Maybe I'm the only one who has developed brand loyality here, but I would get the boxster over the Vette. Yes, it is a bit overpriced, but there is just so many things better about it IMO.

Actually I'd probably get an M3... or maybe a Mini Cooper S J.C.W.

86 951 Driver

Someone doesn't know anything about MOPARS in this thread. Baron009 you have no clue what your talking about. I bet the SRT-4 will last 10 years. As long as the person waxes it and what not just like any other car. Mopar may have bad paint but can make one hell of an engine. I mean look at the k-car's from the 80's they aren't pretty but last forever as long as they are taken care of. Hell my neon runs like new. I just run mobil 1 oil and clean the air filter once in a while and change the spark plugs. Don't get me wrong I would take a 944 turbo over most cars out there just because of the potential, and I love the cars. But when Porsche can't make a car that can't beat a MOPAR then thats horrible.

Joe Anstett

In the 6 months I've owned my 951, I've spent around $5000 in maintenance, and that's with a discount on my top end rebuild from a belt failure.

Granted a lot of this was taking care of things that were shot and neglected by previous owners. But sometimes I wonder if I would have been better off getting that twin turbo 300ZX

That's not true. Yes it's painful to stay in the rat race of new cars. I've owned 3 of them brand new. Here's why people buy them:

Reliability -- someone buying a "POS" Focus or Civic wants a car they can rely on. I've already been stranded once by my Porsche, and to be quite honest, I expect it to fail when I drive it. I've NEVER been stranded by any of my new cars, though I maintain them meticulously. My 1st went 6 years and 100k miles, never stranded. My 2nd is 4 years old now with 55k miles, never been stranded. My 3rd is 2 years old with 27k miles, never been stranded.

Technology -- a POS car made in 2004 has a lot of features and advancements that even the best cars made in 1986 didn't have.

Quality -- a POS car made in 2004 is of surprisingly high quality, even the worst ones are better in some regards than rather expensive cars of 20 years ago.

Leasing -- gets people in and out of cars on a regular basis. A lot of people lease because the costs are lower and it gets them into new cars every few years, before anything can usually go wrong with the car.

Warranty and roadside assistance -- right out of the box, if anything fails, it's covered by the factory warranty. On the off chance that you get stranded, you get free roadside assistance and towing.

Most people are not enthusiasts like you and me. Most people want the automotive equivalent of a toaster. Something that works without thinking about it. Something that takes a beating without being babied. Something that doesn't stand out. Something that gets you from point A to point B. Think about that the next time you're stuck in a flood of Accords and Camrys.

I'm currently in the process of getting my Jeep ready to tow my 951 to and from the track. The possibility of something going wrong is just too high for me to drive it there.

MTM

Wow, yours can actually go almost 70 mph in first gear! That is just too cool.

Porsche-O-Phile

Joe makes a few good points, but I have to disagree that spending $5,000 in maintenance is typical for ANY car, even these expensive ladies. If you broke a belt and trashed the head / pistons, sure I can certainly see $5K in repairs, but that likely also leads one into a rather lengthy discussion on preventative maintenance - especially with regards to the belts on these engines. I've often wondered why Porsche didn't just seal the front off and go with a chain or gear setup, IMO the bit of extra noise would have made a lot of sense with an interference design, but alas they didn't and we're stuck with belts and their associated problems (being highly maintenance-intensive - OR ELSE!!!)

That said, the occasional belt check requirements really aren't THAT ridiculous cost-wise. . . mine recently cost $175 and an afternoon at a dealer, and a lot of people opt to do them themselves.

I suppose I agree that if you want reliability and roadside assistance and all that, a newer car might make some sense, but I tend to be VERY skeptical of anything a seller / dealer tries to offer for the simple fact that people never offer what is in YOUR best interest - they offer what is in THEIR best interest. In other words, for all the people that end up availing themselves of OnStar, roadside assistance, and all this other stuff, there are more than enough that don't and mindlessly fork over the extra $$$ every month for so-called "peace of mind" - they gamble against themselves and in doing so pay out the nose for it. For what it's worth, I carry AAA and pay $60 a year, so I'm not immune to needing a little security blanket, but I think that's a lot better than a $400 a month payment on a new car!

Leasing IMHO is a TOTAL waste of money. Think of it this way - you pay the same or more than you would to buy, STILL have to carry outrageous insurance coverage, STILL pay for maintenance, are limited in most cases to use and mileage, and at the end of your contract, you DON'T get the title. What a deal!!!

In very rare and specific instances it might be justifiable, but in my observations, dealers offering leases just sucker people in by allowing them to "feel cool" as they toodle around in a car that they'd otherwise never be able to afford - they prey on our egos and in return get a reliable and uninterrupted revenue stream. At the end of the contract, they get the cars back, perform some minimal work on them and then resell them as CPO vehicles!!! They are making a KILLING off of this!!!

I agree that the 944s are fickle in terms of maintenance, but anyone willing to do it can get a reasonably reliable car that's fun, good-looking, quick and I'd dare even say reliable that has the potential to be a collectable in the future if we can just keep all the damn SUVs out there from plowing into them. What's important is to enjoy and take care of what you have and if people disagree with any of this longer-than-intended post, that's fine. Mostly just my $0.02. . . opinions?

gleamingred944

When my 944 can't be kept running any more, I'll think about one 2nd hand - IF it handles as beautifully as a 944! What's the point of HP you can't use except on a track? Handling, balance, that you can use everywhere.

seb928s

THat's not maintenance if the belts were replaced on time everytime and rollers done plus the water pump every other time this would have never happened.

Also what have you had done to bring the bill up to 5000$ I'm just wondering I had a tensioner fail on me and my cost wasn't anywhere near that. I did my own work but I can't think how that much labor charge was added onto the work.

Some are better some are worst if you talk about used cars.

GOBOGIE

At this point, if I bought another car (Porsche or what not) that just sits in my garage most of the year, it would probably inhibit my future options to have children (married men will understand what I'm saying).

Joe Anstett

The belts had 7k miles on them (PO showed proof) and I had the belts inspected not once, not twice, but three times. The belt slipped off the roller the day I picked it up from the shop. My mechanic is baffled, says he never saw a failure like this. There was nothing mechanically wrong with the belt or the roller.

$2000 of it was the top end rebuild. The rebuild also turned up a lot of neglected stuff elsewhere; my cycling valve was shot, my turbo was never getting coolant because a part shared between the turbo and NA was never tapped out, then after getting it working the turbo water pump failed, it still had the original heat exhangers, etc. The headers were cracking away from their flanges and had been poorly welded in the past. The e-brake was neglected so I fixed it, new brakes/rotors all around, put in adjustable Konis all around, needed new rubber all over the place (motor mounts, etc), replaced the hood and hatch struts, new weatherstripping all over, new taillight and foglight lenses, I've just done so much stuff to this car, without digging out the service records I couldn't tell you everything off the top of my head. I did everything I could by myself but she's been in the shop 3 times, once for a week, once for 3 weeks, and once for a couple of days.

The extra incurred repair bills have hurt, but man I love driving this car.

seb928s

Was the belt tension to spec?

Joe Anstett

P.O. gave me the documentation showing they were done 7k miles ago (including the glovebox sticker with the belt change info)

I took it to a Porsche dealer when I was ready to buy it for a full inspection. They said the belts looked OK.

After purchase, I took it to an independent Porsche specialist (ranking member of the NNJ PCA) for a 2nd inspection, including the belts. They said the belts looked OK.

I drove the car around for a while more, and then took it back to this same mechanic to have some stuff done that I couldn't do myself (new rear shocks, motor mounts, etc.). Asked them to look at the belts again -- can never be too paranoid, after all. They said the belts looked fine.

Picked the car up. Drove it ~40 miles to work. Driving home from work, the belt jumped off the roller.

Lesson: change the belts no matter what when you buy these cars.

It hurt to have this happen to the car, but the bright side is that it turned up a lot of things wrong with the car that might not have been caught otherwise.

She runs really nice now As much as I am bitching about my misfortunes in 6 months of ownership, I want to stress: I LOVE DRIVING THIS CAR!

seb928s

How old was the belt? Also did any of the shop check the tension? If not that could cause it not being tension to loose.

EZRider

Why would I buy a "new" 4 cylinder Porsche when my current one is almost perfect? For another 15k instead of 55k I will have it just about perfect. And yes IMHO a Porsche 4 cylinder is superior to most domestic V8's. It's not about quantity of cylinders as much as quality per cylinder