Would it be possible to get enough people to start another sfr group buy?
03-07-2004, 03:35 PM
#46
Geaux Tigers!
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Re: Almost in- but have questions
Originally posted by karlfrevans
[B]1. Will this setup be too loud? I've read some the threads that indicate that loudness/tone is an issue with an SFR muffler without a converter.
2. Fabspeed produces a 3" complete exhaust with downpipe. How does the SFR exhaust compare in fit, sound, and price?
3. If I decide to keep my existing downpipe and converter in place, can I bolt the 3" SFR catback system to my existing flanges? Or do I need an adapter of some sort?[/i]
[B]1. Will this setup be too loud? I've read some the threads that indicate that loudness/tone is an issue with an SFR muffler without a converter.
2. Fabspeed produces a 3" complete exhaust with downpipe. How does the SFR exhaust compare in fit, sound, and price?
3. If I decide to keep my existing downpipe and converter in place, can I bolt the 3" SFR catback system to my existing flanges? Or do I need an adapter of some sort?[/i]
2) I think that they are fairly the same.
3) Bolts right on.
03-07-2004, 03:42 PM
#47
Three Wheelin'
I can give you some quick answers, Tim at SFR can give you better answers, I'm sure.
1. It is possible with the removable section to either add a resonator that SFR sells OR an additional muffler there such as a Borla XR-1 which are very nice and very high flow (Tony on the turbo board has 3 of these for his exhaust). However since you have a turbo, that will quieten it some over having just an NA car. If you have your car inspected annually and they look for the cat there, you could have the option of getting his cat and putting it in when inspection time rolls around or leave it in all the time which would also quieten your exhaust some.
2. The SFR testpipe *is* the Fabspeed testpipe as mentioned by Tim a little while back. However I'm not sure about the SFR full 3" testpipe which is designed to hook onto their 3" downpipe that they make. I don't think Fabspeed has the actual short downpipe that bolts directly to the turbo, just the testpipe from the downpipe to the catback. www.fabspeed.com has video of their car with the SFR on it. Blue S2's SFR is on here, but he is NA so it will sound a bit different on a turbo. Also would depend on having a resonator or additional muffler to what the exact sound would be. Fabspeed stuff is more expensive straight out the door.....not by a lot, but it was some. Their prices are on their website. I compared prices and quality and materials on all of them I could find.
3. If you keep that stuff in place, everything I understand is that the SFR catback is a straight bolt on.
A couple of more search links to some info on people installing the exhausts and impressions:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...nstall+exhaust
This one has a bit of nice info and someone posted a couple of links to installs and more pics of his.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...nstall+exhaust
1. It is possible with the removable section to either add a resonator that SFR sells OR an additional muffler there such as a Borla XR-1 which are very nice and very high flow (Tony on the turbo board has 3 of these for his exhaust). However since you have a turbo, that will quieten it some over having just an NA car. If you have your car inspected annually and they look for the cat there, you could have the option of getting his cat and putting it in when inspection time rolls around or leave it in all the time which would also quieten your exhaust some.
2. The SFR testpipe *is* the Fabspeed testpipe as mentioned by Tim a little while back. However I'm not sure about the SFR full 3" testpipe which is designed to hook onto their 3" downpipe that they make. I don't think Fabspeed has the actual short downpipe that bolts directly to the turbo, just the testpipe from the downpipe to the catback. www.fabspeed.com has video of their car with the SFR on it. Blue S2's SFR is on here, but he is NA so it will sound a bit different on a turbo. Also would depend on having a resonator or additional muffler to what the exact sound would be. Fabspeed stuff is more expensive straight out the door.....not by a lot, but it was some. Their prices are on their website. I compared prices and quality and materials on all of them I could find.
3. If you keep that stuff in place, everything I understand is that the SFR catback is a straight bolt on.
A couple of more search links to some info on people installing the exhausts and impressions:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...nstall+exhaust
This one has a bit of nice info and someone posted a couple of links to installs and more pics of his.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...nstall+exhaust
03-07-2004, 10:18 PM
#49
Race Director
Originally posted by tifosiman
I want to hear from an N/A owner who bought one, in regards to what changes it did to the powerband/torque-range. Does the car loose some low end grunt? (turbo owners need not reply, as we all know that the turbos benefit from a freer flowing exhaust)
Also are there any dyno sheets out there comparing this exhaust to a stock n/a exhaust?
I want to hear from an N/A owner who bought one, in regards to what changes it did to the powerband/torque-range. Does the car loose some low end grunt? (turbo owners need not reply, as we all know that the turbos benefit from a freer flowing exhaust)
Also are there any dyno sheets out there comparing this exhaust to a stock n/a exhaust?
03-07-2004, 11:49 PM
#52
Three Wheelin'
Thanks for posting your pics, Scott!!! And for all of your gracious help so far with this.
Tifosi and Dave, I promise to ask and get all details that I can about the exhaust from Tim tomorrow when I find out more about our group buy.
Maybe Tim can even give us some people's names on here who have bought them so that we can inquire with them. Info from someone selling something is always something you take with a grain of salt
They are out to sell their product and although some prove to be super honest and willing to tell you not to buy their product sometimes, we always look at everything with a critical eye and want all the info before we commit.
I'll search a bit more and see what I find on here. I'd say if you have a stock cat though, that there may not be that much change as it can be fairly restrictive in and of itself. I think I've seen talk about some catback stuff for N/As on here. I'll search a bit more myself and see if I can see where I found it.
Tifosi and Dave, I promise to ask and get all details that I can about the exhaust from Tim tomorrow when I find out more about our group buy.
Maybe Tim can even give us some people's names on here who have bought them so that we can inquire with them. Info from someone selling something is always something you take with a grain of salt
They are out to sell their product and although some prove to be super honest and willing to tell you not to buy their product sometimes, we always look at everything with a critical eye and want all the info before we commit.I'll search a bit more and see what I find on here. I'd say if you have a stock cat though, that there may not be that much change as it can be fairly restrictive in and of itself. I think I've seen talk about some catback stuff for N/As on here. I'll search a bit more myself and see if I can see where I found it.
03-07-2004, 11:51 PM
#53
Three Wheelin'
Oh....where is Blue S2.....he has an NA and has an SFR on his car..... I'll PM him and see if we can get him to chime in. That will at least give you NA guys a point of reference to start from.
03-08-2004, 01:24 AM
#54
Race Car
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Here I am!!!
I think SFR should endorse me with a set of 4-2-1 headers! HAHAHA, i dont think anyone on this planet can voice opinion for their product as much as myself! Lets begin!
The SFR is not some luxury item or an upgrade, ITS A NECESSITY. You dont have a 944 without one. Porsche should have used this to begin with. You honestly have no clue what you are missing! Basically the only way to get close is, " My S2 took an Italian vacation."
This exhaust sings on an a N/A motor. Its the stock sound, TURNED UP A LOT, and made aggressive. Not cheapo Honda, and not gurgly american, but its a "Im a passionate banshee, but with *****!" scream at full throttle.
If you have a N/A, GET THE 2.5" !!! NOT the 3. Tim advises away from the 3" on a N/A. Its too big, and doesnt sound right. Turbos can deal with the 3" a lot better.
Ok, the exhaust is not obnoxious or overly loud. Its perfect. Its has presence at idle, and authority on gas. My sound clip doesnt do it justice. If anyone wants to hear it, i will be at the PCA chesepeak autocross school on the 20th. It lets people know, THIS IS A TOP NOTCH SPORTS CAR, AND IT MEANS BUSINESS. Lambos have their scream, Ferraris have their scream, 911s have their scream (or they used too...), why not us? NOW WE DO!
The fit is perfect. It went on like Porsche designed it. It came packaged up with wrapping, packing, box, etc... and the shipping weight was LESS THAN 15lbs. Im not sure on the exact weight, i didnt weigh it, but its light as crap. The stock one is not light at all.
Another great point about the SFR is its interchangability with a straight pipe. Takes like 5 minutes (or less if you do it often i guess) to remove the end and replace it with an SFR straight pipe. You can have the straight pipe at the track, and put a muffler back on to drive home. How tight is that? You can also get the SFR in stock look. Most people do not notice i have changed the exhaust. Everyone does ask me why my 944 sounds soo damn good though. It really does sound tight. And if you have a 16valve motor, the mechanical whine is accentuated and its just a breathtaking sound.
As for performance, im not sure of any gains. I will be dyno testing later this spring and will post them here. The car DID smoothen up a lot. Throttle response got better, and the car just feels more able through the revs. (I also use 94 octane gas.) The rest of my car is bone stock. I am willing to demo the car for anyone who wants to hear it and is in the DC/No.VA/MD area. I will also be on the rennlist drive on March 28th. And as stated, the March 20th autocross school. You want to see and hear it, I will be more than happy to show it off and give a drive. Also, i can get some true underbody pics of fit and finish next week when i have the car lifted. (changing to SS brake lines)
Oh, an added note, get the recommended SFR length for the tip, DONT REQUEST A SHORT ONE!!!! It will melt your bumper pad. The standard SFR length is great. Its not rice in any way. (trust me, i live in Rice Land, USA. Half the town is asian, the other half is hispanic, and up the highway 15 minutes its country where Uncle Ben meets american muscle.)
If anyone is curious about something i havent touched on, feel free to ask. Or call Tim. He is a great guy, and was a pleasure to do business with. If i had a turbo ide be blowing tons more cash his way. Since i concours, i have to stick with stuff that arent really visible. And the SFR has gotten by concours judges. (or they felt it was proper, as it should be, so they didnt mark me off) It really looks normal on the car.
I speak all this on my own, and for my love of the sound. I am a strict audiophile, and this thing is aural perfection. It brought a new joy to the car of my dreams. I have no connection with SFR, i am just an overjoyed customer! I didnt even get to use a group buy. I missed it back then. I would have paid double for this unit. Its worth every single penny! I would buy it again, and if i had money coming outta my a** ide buy one for everyone here too! (ive had it on for a year now)
Remember, this is my opinion as well. Some people like fart-cans, some people like holes in their mufflers, some people like american cars!!! You can't please everyone. Especially on this board. If you truly love the sound of a passionate sports car bred for one reason, this will bring your car to life. Look at what a Tubi does to a Lambo. This is the equivalent for our cars! If thats not what you are looking for, this aint your thread or group buy!
4 cylinders never sounded sooo good.
(especially if ya got 16 valves due to accentuated whine...)
I think SFR should endorse me with a set of 4-2-1 headers! HAHAHA, i dont think anyone on this planet can voice opinion for their product as much as myself! Lets begin!
The SFR is not some luxury item or an upgrade, ITS A NECESSITY. You dont have a 944 without one. Porsche should have used this to begin with. You honestly have no clue what you are missing! Basically the only way to get close is, " My S2 took an Italian vacation."
This exhaust sings on an a N/A motor. Its the stock sound, TURNED UP A LOT, and made aggressive. Not cheapo Honda, and not gurgly american, but its a "Im a passionate banshee, but with *****!" scream at full throttle.
If you have a N/A, GET THE 2.5" !!! NOT the 3. Tim advises away from the 3" on a N/A. Its too big, and doesnt sound right. Turbos can deal with the 3" a lot better.
Ok, the exhaust is not obnoxious or overly loud. Its perfect. Its has presence at idle, and authority on gas. My sound clip doesnt do it justice. If anyone wants to hear it, i will be at the PCA chesepeak autocross school on the 20th. It lets people know, THIS IS A TOP NOTCH SPORTS CAR, AND IT MEANS BUSINESS. Lambos have their scream, Ferraris have their scream, 911s have their scream (or they used too...), why not us? NOW WE DO!
The fit is perfect. It went on like Porsche designed it. It came packaged up with wrapping, packing, box, etc... and the shipping weight was LESS THAN 15lbs. Im not sure on the exact weight, i didnt weigh it, but its light as crap. The stock one is not light at all.
Another great point about the SFR is its interchangability with a straight pipe. Takes like 5 minutes (or less if you do it often i guess) to remove the end and replace it with an SFR straight pipe. You can have the straight pipe at the track, and put a muffler back on to drive home. How tight is that? You can also get the SFR in stock look. Most people do not notice i have changed the exhaust. Everyone does ask me why my 944 sounds soo damn good though. It really does sound tight. And if you have a 16valve motor, the mechanical whine is accentuated and its just a breathtaking sound.
As for performance, im not sure of any gains. I will be dyno testing later this spring and will post them here. The car DID smoothen up a lot. Throttle response got better, and the car just feels more able through the revs. (I also use 94 octane gas.) The rest of my car is bone stock. I am willing to demo the car for anyone who wants to hear it and is in the DC/No.VA/MD area. I will also be on the rennlist drive on March 28th. And as stated, the March 20th autocross school. You want to see and hear it, I will be more than happy to show it off and give a drive. Also, i can get some true underbody pics of fit and finish next week when i have the car lifted. (changing to SS brake lines)
Oh, an added note, get the recommended SFR length for the tip, DONT REQUEST A SHORT ONE!!!! It will melt your bumper pad. The standard SFR length is great. Its not rice in any way. (trust me, i live in Rice Land, USA. Half the town is asian, the other half is hispanic, and up the highway 15 minutes its country where Uncle Ben meets american muscle.)
If anyone is curious about something i havent touched on, feel free to ask. Or call Tim. He is a great guy, and was a pleasure to do business with. If i had a turbo ide be blowing tons more cash his way. Since i concours, i have to stick with stuff that arent really visible. And the SFR has gotten by concours judges. (or they felt it was proper, as it should be, so they didnt mark me off) It really looks normal on the car.
I speak all this on my own, and for my love of the sound. I am a strict audiophile, and this thing is aural perfection. It brought a new joy to the car of my dreams. I have no connection with SFR, i am just an overjoyed customer! I didnt even get to use a group buy. I missed it back then. I would have paid double for this unit. Its worth every single penny! I would buy it again, and if i had money coming outta my a** ide buy one for everyone here too! (ive had it on for a year now)
Remember, this is my opinion as well. Some people like fart-cans, some people like holes in their mufflers, some people like american cars!!! You can't please everyone. Especially on this board. If you truly love the sound of a passionate sports car bred for one reason, this will bring your car to life. Look at what a Tubi does to a Lambo. This is the equivalent for our cars! If thats not what you are looking for, this aint your thread or group buy!
4 cylinders never sounded sooo good.
(especially if ya got 16 valves due to accentuated whine...)
Last edited by Blue S2; 03-08-2004 at 01:45 AM.
03-08-2004, 03:53 PM
#60
Three Wheelin'
Okay.....I have info now. I just got off the phone with Tim. We can get a group buy on both the catbacks AND the testpipe. 10 people for the catbacks and 5 for the test pipes.
Details: The catbacks will be $100 off and another $50 off if you do not want the pipe polished (tips and muffler are still polished, they are sourced that was as was mentioned on the last group buy). That means that the exhaust is $500 + shipping if you want polished or $450 + shipping if you want unpolished....going unpolished myself. The test pipes for 5 people he will give us $50 off. That's a savings to me over $200 for the whole shebang. Almost enough to cover the purchase of my cat to go with it
Answers to questions: Tim said that the catbacks are now usually built with a tip that is equivalent to stock, the early short ones were shorter than stock and may have been able to burn bumper pads if you like to shoot fire out of your exhaust. He doesn't believe there will be any problems with them now if you want "stock length" but they will work with you to get the length you want and oval mufflers and tips will not be a problem.
NA people, Tim said you could expect perhaps 5hp increases with these pipes, we all know that NAs are hard to extract power from and the factory setup isn't too bad to start with. Should be no low end loss of power or a shifting of the power band. Blue S2 confirms this pretty well with his. I've asked another person who got the SFR on an NA to post if they would.... Rats...I forgot to ask about the 968....I WILL find out about that for you unless you want to call yourself and discuss it with him Bruce.
Tim said they are fairly busy right at the moment, so it might be 2-3 weeks before these will ship, which means we may be able to keep the group buy open for a bit to make sure that everyone who wants to order can do so.
If you are wanting to order, please post again so I know that you are definitely IN so we can get a final count. I told Tim we would make sure we had enough and if so the orders would start coming in a bit later this week so we don't have 4 people order and then get screwed. So please....please....if you want to order put your name here toconfirm yourself again. I'll try to PM everyone I know that is interested as well.
If you are not sure and want a question answered before ordering, tell me or call Tim and we will get the answers for you. Also, with the honor group buy, please don't say you will and turn around and not. We all understand emergencies, but you may be the key order maker to get the group buy price in effect and just not ordering isn't cool for the rest of us.
So stick your nose in here and say something! This is a nice discount on a great system and I want one....so let's make it happen!
Thanks for your participation and looking forward to hearing from everyone!
Details: The catbacks will be $100 off and another $50 off if you do not want the pipe polished (tips and muffler are still polished, they are sourced that was as was mentioned on the last group buy). That means that the exhaust is $500 + shipping if you want polished or $450 + shipping if you want unpolished....going unpolished myself. The test pipes for 5 people he will give us $50 off. That's a savings to me over $200 for the whole shebang. Almost enough to cover the purchase of my cat to go with it
Answers to questions: Tim said that the catbacks are now usually built with a tip that is equivalent to stock, the early short ones were shorter than stock and may have been able to burn bumper pads if you like to shoot fire out of your exhaust. He doesn't believe there will be any problems with them now if you want "stock length" but they will work with you to get the length you want and oval mufflers and tips will not be a problem.
NA people, Tim said you could expect perhaps 5hp increases with these pipes, we all know that NAs are hard to extract power from and the factory setup isn't too bad to start with. Should be no low end loss of power or a shifting of the power band. Blue S2 confirms this pretty well with his. I've asked another person who got the SFR on an NA to post if they would.... Rats...I forgot to ask about the 968....I WILL find out about that for you unless you want to call yourself and discuss it with him Bruce.
Tim said they are fairly busy right at the moment, so it might be 2-3 weeks before these will ship, which means we may be able to keep the group buy open for a bit to make sure that everyone who wants to order can do so.
If you are wanting to order, please post again so I know that you are definitely IN so we can get a final count. I told Tim we would make sure we had enough and if so the orders would start coming in a bit later this week so we don't have 4 people order and then get screwed. So please....please....if you want to order put your name here toconfirm yourself again. I'll try to PM everyone I know that is interested as well.
If you are not sure and want a question answered before ordering, tell me or call Tim and we will get the answers for you. Also, with the honor group buy, please don't say you will and turn around and not. We all understand emergencies, but you may be the key order maker to get the group buy price in effect and just not ordering isn't cool for the rest of us.
So stick your nose in here and say something! This is a nice discount on a great system and I want one....so let's make it happen!
Thanks for your participation and looking forward to hearing from everyone!